multi midi

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lem
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Re: multi midi

Post by lem »

I mean I am using up all my midi channels, but would have hoped that Ableton would be able to differentiate between controllers...
I wouldn't just be using a single channel...

For example I had 16 presets on the BCR2000 each preset has its own midi channel. Then I tried to assign some parameters with the nanokontrol but they interfered with my BCR assignments. I didn't realise that Ableton would do that until it happened. So then I had to go through my presets on the BCR to share Channels across presets (which makes it a bit more confusing when looking at the assignments in the midi mapping window)

Then I had an issue when trying to record automation in session view. So those controls use a different midi channel again as these have to pass through midipipe to treat the midi message. In my current setup that is two midi channels that can't be used for anything else or it feeds back on itself and causes all sorts of mischief...

So at the moment I have a lot of confusing midi stuff going on when my intial idea of a channel per page. It was neat and workable, but I am finding myself getting really put off editing controllers now.

I hope this makes it clearer.

I was only trying to make the OP aware of an issue I have had when using multiple controllers with Ableton. It is one of those things that you only becomes apparent when you try it.
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japanic
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Re: multi midi

Post by japanic »

Stomper wrote:
japanic wrote:im looking to add to my axiom25 midi keyboard which is great for the price, what i need is a controller that's purely sliders and knobs.

Also i dont even know if i can use multiple midi inputs for same DAW / PC ? :oops:

I am looking to use this for live productions rather then studio
novation nocturn, novation zero sl mk2 and behringer bcr2000 are the only ones that comes to my mind.


the novation zero looks great and in my budget ! ty for suggestions !
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japanic
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Re: multi midi

Post by japanic »

lem wrote:

I was only trying to make the OP aware of an issue I have had when using multiple controllers with Ableton. It is one of those things that you only becomes apparent when you try it.
Thank you for your input on this subject, if the pc cant handle more then 1 midi with out botching up i'd better get a controller with as many pots n sliders as possible then.

Also is this just an ableton thing ?
minimal...deep...progressive...webradio >>> www.japanic.us <<<
lem
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Re: multi midi

Post by lem »

japanic wrote: Thank you for your input on this subject, if the pc cant handle more then 1 midi with out botching up i'd better get a controller with as many pots n sliders as possible then.
Also is this just an ableton thing ?
I think you might be misunderstanding. You can use all 16 midi channels on all controllers.
But say you use channel-16 cc-2 on a BCR2000 to control filter cutoff, then on a Nanokontrol if you try to assign channel-16 cc-2 to something different, say volume - then when you change the volume with the Nanokontrol, it will also effect the filter cutoff and when you change the filter cutoff on the BCR it will also effect the Volume.
Really the assingments should be Controller>Channel>CC, but Ableton only see's Channel>CC.

Well I think its almost more useful to have 2 of the same controllers with exactly the same presets on them so you can use two pages at once. I would be doing this but my gig bag is pretty full and space is so limited when I play.

Good question about an it being just an Ableton thing. In the past I have just used midi for composition and rarely ever use more than 8 cc's. Whereas my live set (which I also use for composition) is completely intergrated with my controllers and I don't need a monitor, keyboard, or a mouse. I have never tried to assign as many parameters when I used Logic or Cubase Sx3. Both of which I used to find the midi setup pretty annoying...

I hope this helps - I feel like I have just been confusing the thread!
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Re: multi midi

Post by kdgh »

Ahhh.... i understand the issue now :-).
Though i think you might be more careful with what to assign.
Cause 16 midi channels with like almost 40cc's available... That's quite a lot!

Curious how you assign your midi and how you're planning to play live.
You probably want to control all elements individually per song/track?

Don't know if it works for you, but did you ever tried bussing your elements and put the filters/fx's on there?
like let's say you've 8 channels with your elements, bus them to 4 groups (kick/bass, drums, melody, SFX) and control the sends over the busses.

Next to that you can also use your audioFXrack in a send and try to use the selector range of the audio effects rack to change FX's.
This way you can assign some knobs that are already in use but won't be noticeable, cause you changed the FX in the audioFXrack.

Just some thingies/tricks i use with my live set. Don't know if it's useable for you, though i think it's good to share ideas
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Re: multi midi

Post by lem »

thanks for your advice mate. like u said, sharing ideas is what its all about really!

I would group things more but ableton doesnt do groups within groups. so everything gets pretty messy quickly. saying that i have only got 6 audio tracks atm. 3 of these are drum racks which would have operators in them rather than drum samples, as this could b much more flexible. but i am sh!t with operator and i enjoy sampling too much. lol

the idea is for a live improvised set... so no same sound twice. still with a theme/vibe, and less of one tune into another but more of a..... journey.

im trying not to rely on traditional fx returns and i am focussing more on things like reverbs that turn any sound into pads, gated delays that turn and sound to percussion....etc....

the main body of my midi mappings is sequencing. i have two 8 step sequencers and 3 drum racks powered by monome sequencers. these also have 'ghost' sequencers running which i dont have a page on my controller dedicated to, but generate depending on the notes of the other sequencers. i.e, i cant change a single chord of my pad sound, because they share the same midi signal as my bass and lead sounds. but i can transpose or spread the chords of my pad sounds.

i havent used all my midi cc's yet, and i am cutting back on certain things and adding new things all the time. i can see myself running out of cc's at some point as i would like to get another bcr, but thought it would show as another control surface... but cc sharing could b an issue.

the whole thing can b a right ballache, but even at the most basic level its at at the mo, i can 'jam' for hours before gettin bored. i dont look at a screen or touch a mouse, i just stare out the window at birds and trees (mostly rain!) and loose myself...
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Re: multi midi

Post by kdgh »

Sounds wicked mate!
Got the same idea for a liveset, though bit more DJ minded.

I had loads of trouble with sequencing my monome 64. I really wanted 16 steps, but that wasn't really possible because of (you can already guess this one) midi cc's.
Instead of that i hooked up my Elektron MD as sequencer for my drum rack. In every drum rack note that get triggers by the MD has a sampler. So let's say 8 samplers in 1 drum rack.
Every sampler has it's own 'element'. Like kick drum, snare, percussion, hihat, open hihat, etc. With a controller assigned to the selection bar i scan through all the samplers. So 8 turn knobs are dedicated to skip through the whole 'library'. Might be something you could dive in to. Instead of trying to make groups within groups.

Next to that i'm trying to stop using Ableton Fx's. Instead of that i bought a Strymon timeline, 2 alesis nano compressors (for side chain use), KOMA pedals and some DIY stuff. I had a TC Hall of Fame, but ditched it. Sounded TOO huge in my ears ;-). Now i'm saving for Strymon Blue Sky.. hopefully that'll do the trick.

Did you program your monome to make chords and melodies? cause if you do, i would really would like to see how you do that. Could be something i should dive in to!
lem
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Re: multi midi

Post by lem »

kdgh wrote: I had loads of trouble with sequencing my monome 64. I really wanted 16 steps, but that wasn't really possible because of (you can already guess this one) midi cc's.
Instead of that i hooked up my Elektron MD as sequencer for my drum rack. In every drum rack note that get triggers by the MD has a sampler. So let's say 8 samplers in 1 drum rack.
Every sampler has it's own 'element'. Like kick drum, snare, percussion, hihat, open hihat, etc. With a controller assigned to the selection bar i scan through all the samplers. So 8 turn knobs are dedicated to skip through the whole 'library'. Might be something you could dive in to. Instead of trying to make groups within groups.

Next to that i'm trying to stop using Ableton Fx's. Instead of that i bought a Strymon timeline, 2 alesis nano compressors (for side chain use), KOMA pedals and some DIY stuff. I had a TC Hall of Fame, but ditched it. Sounded TOO huge in my ears ;-). Now i'm saving for Strymon Blue Sky.. hopefully that'll do the trick.

Did you program your monome to make chords and melodies? cause if you do, i would really would like to see how you do that. Could be something i should dive in to!
I think its better not to think of the monome as sequencing 'steps' because there is such a great random element to it. To me X0X sequencing is too predictable, I just get so bored. I do use it for my bread n' butter sounds like kick,hat,clap and I have it on 8th timing so that the 8 steps cycle over a bar.
If I had the option I would probably be using a Machinedrum! But I haven't got the funds for that kind of thing anymore. I just try to squeeze the best out of what I have.
I already use macros to cycle through drum sounds loaded in samplers, that keeps things quite tidy.

I actually quite like some of Abletons fx. I would prefer strymon delays etc... but I can't really afford the outlay. Plus I want this to be really simple to set up. Too many years of taking traktor scratch to clubs and faffing for me to carry on with that...
Don't get me wrong, my room is full of hardware. I love it all, but I live in the sticks and have nothing but public transport. I have to make it as compact as possible.
I only use Abletons plugins and some Maxforlive midi sequencing plugins. Some I have made myself but they arn't very user friendly, but they are stable and have little CPU overhead. The worst things are the Analog plugins. They can bash the CPU a bit! lol

The monome can make chords, but like I said before, the timing can be a bit random. I just use the chord midi plugin in ableton and send it any midi signal.
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