marcel dettmann bass

[Rein]

mattias fridell makes his basslines with fx apparently; see http://www.mnml.nl/phpBB3/viewtopic.php ... 7&start=13

[Kleig]

Don't stress too much over the synth's original output. The effects you use on that output are more important.

personally i disagree.
it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. i dont use any effects at all, apart from a very small amount of reverb occasionally, its more important to me to get an interesting sound out of my synth in the first place.
its too easy to smoother things in effects and neglect the raw sound of the synth.
personally i like raw, effects turn me off. there's so much that can be acheived within the synthesis process itself, so much room in the release tails to do interesting things which would be lost by adding effects.

i suppose what i'm saying is a synthesizer is in itself an effects machine.

so i think its a personal thing.

Gotta agree with Steevio. The last thing you want to stick on a bass line is any effects (unless it's an overdrive/distortion).

You both have to remember that we're talking about the sort of sound Corebox has and what Ostgut Ton or its residents' labels are putting out in general. There's not a lot of mathematically pure and dry waveform. I remember when five years back putting a huge reverb on a kick was a big no-no, but the stereotypical Berghain sound is pretty much characterized by that nowadays.

[loopdon]

Verb on kicks isn't really new.
I agree on what Steevio says. Learning synthesis is so rewarding.
Getting into ADSR and stuff has helped me out loads. And his posts steered me in this direction.

On the other hand - do what you want with FX. It's all good.

If one thing has been the biggest hinderance to me over al those years it's been:
you don't do this, you don't do that.

Who am i to tell anybody what to do?

"I would like that tune, man, but there's verb on that kick so that puts me right of."

It's good to learn about some of the underlying physics in sound. Then do your own thinking, if you want.

I reckon the Berghain Sound works especially well because it's minimal in the truest sense of the word.
It's a reduced sound, sparse even, in a world that's filled to the brim with info. It works NOW.

If that were the standard sound, we would be seeking stuff with more happening. It's a strange world
and it all goes around in circles. If a tune is plodding along on just a kick and some sub for two minutes ,
any metallic sound with some verb on it coming in will be welcomed.

If a tune is full on for three minutes non-stop, any break with less info will be welcomed.
It's about relief and expectations and contrast. Psychology in its simplest form.

Back when EDM started to take of it became faster and faster. That was futuristic sound.

Now with the Internet and a world seemingly turning faster and faster, we seem to be strieving for
some relief via slower music.

[Kleig]

Verb on kicks isn't really new.
I agree on what Steevio says. Learning synthesis is so rewarding.
Getting into ADSR and stuff has helped me out loads. And his posts steered me in this direction.

On the other hand - do what you want with FX. It's all good.

If one thing has been the biggest hinderance to me over al those years it's been:
you don't do this, you don't do that.

Who am i to tell anybody what to do?

"I would like that tune, man, but there's verb on that kick so that puts me right of."

It's good to learn about some of the underlying physics in sound. Then do your own thinking, if you want.

I reckon the Berghain Sound works especially well because it's minimal in the truest sense of the word.
It's a reduced sound, sparse even, in a world that's filled to the brim with info. It works NOW.

If that were the standard sound, we would be seeking stuff with more happening. It's a strange world
and it all goes around in circles. If a tune is plodding along on just a kick and some sub for two minutes ,
any metallic sound with some verb on it coming in will be welcomed.

If a tune is full on for three minutes non-stop, any break with less info will be welcomed.
It's about relief and expectations and contrast. Psychology in its simplest form.

Back when EDM started to take of it became faster and faster. That was futuristic sound.

Now with the Internet and a world seemingly turning faster and faster, we seem to be strieving for
some relief via slower music.

Could you link me some older tunes that have the big low end rumble reverb slapped over a kick? Could you link me to one single song like Corebox that is built on dry synths and pure waveforms? Either way, the point isn't about the kick or one type of sound. It's about these imaginary norms that seem to hold people back from creating new stuff. I'm being told that the last thing I'd want to do is stick effects on a bassline, yet Subzero has a ton of effects over its amazing bassline.

[Mono-xID]

c'mon dudes...the result is important...not the way to achieve it...

if someone uses a saw wave and mangle it to death wit a huge fx chain and the track is superb,i don't care,same when someone achive this within the synth only....

what matters is the track

[loopdon]

Kleig, you got me wrong there, bro.
You bring good knowledge to the table. Thanks for that.
I could look up some older stuff - but do you really think this stuff is new. Fresh?
Even if - wouldn't that only mean nobody before tried to put some verb over some simple, low-passed harmonically rich waveforms?
Highly doubtable, imo. sh!t ain't exactly new, innit? Wendy Carlos, anyone?

I'd take Umek's Lanicor over this any day. But that's personal preference.

I think we might not be to different in tastes, imo, and that often leads to confrontations.
I tried to verbalize some thoughts about EDM/ music in general. It's hard to get feelings across, properly, i admit.

I ain't hostile, bro:

Me:

If one thing has been the biggest hinderance to me over al those years it's been:
you don't do this, you don't do that.

You:

Either way, the point isn't about the kick or one type of sound. It's about these imaginary norms that seem to hold people back from creating new stuff. I'm being told that the last thing I'd want to do is stick effects on a bassline, yet Subzero has a ton of effects over its amazing bassline.

We seem to be saying the same things but there are some communicational problems, i reckon

[steevio]

Don't stress too much over the synth's original output. The effects you use on that output are more important.

personally i disagree.
it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. i dont use any effects at all, apart from a very small amount of reverb occasionally, its more important to me to get an interesting sound out of my synth in the first place.
its too easy to smoother things in effects and neglect the raw sound of the synth.
personally i like raw, effects turn me off. there's so much that can be acheived within the synthesis process itself, so much room in the release tails to do interesting things which would be lost by adding effects.

i suppose what i'm saying is a synthesizer is in itself an effects machine.

so i think its a personal thing.

Gotta agree with Steevio. The last thing you want to stick on a bass line is any effects (unless it's an overdrive/distortion).

You both have to remember that we're talking about the sort of sound Corebox has and what Ostgut Ton or its residents' labels are putting out in general. There's not a lot of mathematically pure and dry waveform. I remember when five years back putting a huge reverb on a kick was a big no-no, but the stereotypical Berghain sound is pretty much characterized by that nowadays.

i was just reacting to your statement as a general principle, i dont think its good advice to say 'dont stress about the synth
sound' thats all.
how do you know how much attention went into a synth sound if you cant hear it due it being drowned in effects ?
effects are generated based on an original sound, the more attention that went into that sound the better the sound of the effects too.
btw having huge reverbs on kicks is an ancient technique, many of the big techno tunes of the 1990s had huge kick reverbs, and relied on that as the whole bottom end of the track, it wasnt invented by Ostgut Ton. i'm fully aware of the Ostgut Ton sound, i have an Ostgut Ton DJ Tama Sumo as a resident at the event i organise, and have had Marcel Dettmann as a guest.
i honestly think its a personal thing, there's no right or wrong way to do anything.

i wasnt trying to be confrontational for the sake of it, i kind of know what you're trying to say, but i just disagree thats all, its no biggy, we all have our different ways.

[loopdon]

Steevio, thanks for jumping in.

I reckon we all get our trousers wrapped up so much because we all love our music.
We all didn't come here because we're the biggest fans of the Swedish House Mafia, innit?

I still think you will find bigger gems, or shall i just say gems if you dig back in time?
It just doesn't sound to special to me, that being the "Berghain sound".
I have been round these circles long enuff. 93/94 ca.

Peace out.