A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

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steevio
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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by steevio » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:21 pm

jessejames wrote:Steevio, I remember you posting something not too long ago about using PWM to be able to have a kick and bass occupying the same territory and not phasing out. I may be mis-remembering though.
yeah not PWM, but PW and not with the same note though.

i always put a hole in my bass harmonics where the octave of the kick fundamental is by adjusting the pulse width (i always use pulse waves for bass these days)

example; i might remove the 3rd harmonic (fifth) by adjusting pulse width of the bass. so if the sub bass was say a low C 33Hz, the next harmonic is C 65Hz, then i'd remove the next harmonic G 98 Hz, and have the kick at G 49Hz, so it harmonises as a perfect fifth with the sub, and then the second harmonic of the kick (98 Hz) will be able to breath in the hole i made in the bass.

this helps the kick and bass to gel, and reduces the chance of spikes when the same frequencies double up because of identicle harmonics from two different sounds.

there are various ways to utilise the pulse width of the bass to clean up your bottom end, this works upwards into the high bass and low mids with other sounds there to.

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by kivetros » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:33 pm

steevio wrote:i always put a hole in my bass harmonics where the octave of the kick fundamental is by adjusting the pulse width (i always use pulse waves for bass these days)

example; i might remove the 3rd harmonic (fifth) by adjusting pulse width of the bass. so if the sub bass was say a low C 33Hz, the next harmonic is C 65Hz, then i'd remove the next harmonic G 98 Hz, and have the kick at G 49Hz, so it harmonises as a perfect fifth with the sub, and then the second harmonic of the kick (98 Hz) will be able to breath in the hole i made in the bass.

there are various ways to utilise the pulse width of the bass to clean up your bottom end, this works upwards into the high bass and low mids with other sounds there to.
Could you explain this in a little more detail? What is the relationship between pulse width and harmonics, and how does changing pulse width remove harmonics?

Also, what plugin / synth do you use to create basses (just out of curiosity, of course)?
tone-def wrote:i thought kivetros was saying he's not going to use it just because some other people don't. it's best to try things out for yourself and decide what sounds best.
I would never stop or start using a technique because it is trendy to do so... I was just genuinely shocked that it was possible to write dance music without it!

Also: wouldn't a quick and easy fix to a problem like this (kick and bass interfering) be to just HP the bass wherever it falls on the same note as the kick? That way you still get most of the high end of the timbre.

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by steevio » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 pm

kivetros wrote: Could you explain this in a little more detail? What is the relationship between pulse width and harmonics, and how does changing pulse width remove harmonics?

Also, what plugin / synth do you use to create basses (just out of curiosity, of course)?
i havent got time to explain this in detail here bro, search on the web about harmonics and pulse width.

seeing it visually is a good way to understand it, use a real time spectrum analyser on a pulse wave and adjust the pulse width slowly, and you'll see what happens.

i use a modular synthesizer for my bass, (or sometimes an SH101)

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by jessejames » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:50 pm

The more I've gotten into synthesis, the more your posts resonate with me, Steevio.

Kivetros, quick Google search brought up this...

http://old.nabble.com/Pulse-Width-Harmo ... 72660.html

Interesting stuff. Guess I've got some fiddling to do tonight.

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by Phase Ghost » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:52 pm

steevio wrote:clean up your bottom end.
:D

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by kivetros » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:10 am

jessejames wrote:The more I've gotten into synthesis, the more your posts resonate with me, Steevio.

Kivetros, quick Google search brought up this...

http://old.nabble.com/Pulse-Width-Harmo ... 72660.html

Interesting stuff. Guess I've got some fiddling to do tonight.
Thanks for the link! Didn't mean to put you out or anything, steevio... my bad. Looks like I have some research of my own to do - thanks for turning me on to this.

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by NoAffiliation » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:46 am

you can widen the bass to resolve issues. imo it's not so much of a problem with the frequencies but it's gonna sound flat if everything is dead center on top of each other and you will spend alot of time trying to make it work

before someone says bass is supposed to be mono, the definition of mono is that it's the exact same thing coming out of both speakers, that's it. this is why modern DAW developers like ableton only give you "stereo" channels to work with because mono isn't just single channel audio. you can have a super wide bass that still works in mono. yes for vinyl pressing the subs should be mono but JUST the subs, there's alot more frequency content in kicks and bass that can be played with in the acoustic space. the subs mixing together a little isn't going to be a problem, the problem is when you have two big sounds like kick and bass dead center, the envelopes fight each other much more than just those super lows

just load up your favorite track from favorite artist on a good phase scope and watch it as it plays

there's a ton of badass plugins that do all kinds of widening magic, pair one witha phase scope and it's on
Last edited by NoAffiliation on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

Post by AK » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:47 am

kivetros wrote:
jessejames wrote:The more I've gotten into synthesis, the more your posts resonate with me, Steevio.

Kivetros, quick Google search brought up this...

http://old.nabble.com/Pulse-Width-Harmo ... 72660.html

Interesting stuff. Guess I've got some fiddling to do tonight.
Thanks for the link! Didn't mean to put you out or anything, steevio... my bad. Looks like I have some research of my own to do - thanks for turning me on to this.
Attach an Analyzer to the signal path, then on a synth of your choice, simply create a pulse waveform with the sustain set to max and the filter wide open and observe the changes in the analyzer as you alter the pulse width. You will clearly see the harmonics appearing and disappearing depending on the width of the pulse.

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