Chords & Harmony

[luco]

what u think is great i think is average.... do i think im better than u ? yes i do

[kivetros]

what u think is great i think is average.... do i think im better than u ? yes i do

Who are you talking to, and what are you even talking about?

-K

[AK]

Personally, I don't have any specific method for starting a track, could be a beat, a bassline, a chord. I usually get harmonic ideas from 'doodling' about on my Triton with an EP loaded. Even very basic two-handed keyboard playing will get you ideas for chords/bass/leads/rhythm. Even if they're just ideas, you can take them, write them down, or record them and begin with a blank slate and proceed to write something in your own style. A lot of people have different methods but my ideas come about from the above, so when I actually find some harmony I like from playing around on a keyboard, I can have at least a vague idea for a track and see how it pans out from there.

I don't think there's any 1 specific method that works best. Some people prefer to begin with chords, others prefer melodic or bass lines. I think both can lead to very different outcomes in what the track ultimately sounds like, but neither necessarily being a 'better' approach.

Thanks. I guess I have always struggled with coming up with decent non-percussive sounds for minimal and techno tracks. I come from a trance / progressive background, so I get lost with trying to find rhythmic synths that don't sound like a supersaw progression. I can sit and write fantastic percussion all day, but I find myself very, very lost with minimal / techno chords and how they're done.

I think the most important thing I learnt is that none of the stuff you put in should be static. Like if you have a chordprogression going and you start building a track around it and then sudenly the chordprogression dosen't fit anymore just loose it. Instead of trying to fix the whole thing around it. Think of it as the chords did their part in inspiring the rest of the track but they don't have to be there just cause you came up with it first.

I have learned that lesson the hard way. That's very good advice... thanks.

-K

Have you ever looked to see how other artists get to where they get to in some of their music? I'm not a fan of Prince but non can deny he's an extremely competent musician but I once read a music article on how he arrives at some of his musical structures and it was quite eye opening. Some of what I remember were him comping over a series of basic chords, then comping over the comping, adding new chords, removing the comping and comping again. A continuation of extended harmonic exercises, counterpoint and melody and all recorded. Then, he'd go back to the original base chords, add say the very last bit of comping and have these crazy juxtaposed musical ideas which worked but were never obvious as to how he arrived there co's all the linking 'middle' bits had disappeared.

Not something I have tried and I don't know why I just suddenly remembered it but hey. I was of the opinion that things could potentially become contrived the longer you pan them out and think about them but I guess that's not always the case. I recently read a certain Beachboys track took 60-odd days to explore all the harmonies in the vocals and a number of different studios.

I guess we're not talking commercial music here but the underlying principles are still music. One of my musical heroes is Herbie Hancock, aside from his keys skills, his use of chords and voicings are just mindblowingly awesome.

[hydrogen]

AK! nice one on those prince techniques! i love it.

some herbie for you.

[simonb]

As usual for here, this is turning into a pretty interesting thread...

In some ways I kinda took this stuff for granted because I studied music through high school, played a couple of instruments, etc but it's now becoming clear that I've been neglecting this sort of stuff, especially trying to come up with my own progressions and so on. I'm not looking to write full-blown orchestral stuff but I'm realising that a lot of the ideas I have for tracks involve certain harmonies/progressions that I can't quite put my finger on (quite literally, when I'm bashing stuff out on the keyboard...)

Any good books/resources/tips etc for someone like me who knows their way around basic music theory and standard chords but wants to know a bit more about tying it all together? Obviously to be supplemented with lots of messing around on my keyboard. I know that's quite vague but hope you know what I'm getting at. I've read things that have helped me a lot with mixing, synthesis, etc. and reckon this is the next thing to develop...

[AK]

Any good books/resources/tips etc for someone like me who knows their way around basic music theory and standard chords but wants to know a bit more about tying it all together? Obviously to be supplemented with lots of messing around on my keyboard. I know that's quite vague but hope you know what I'm getting at. I've read things that have helped me a lot with mixing, synthesis, etc. and reckon this is the next thing to develop...

I have a few books lying around, 2 I find I still flip through a lot are both by a guy called Michael Hewitt. Ones called 'Composition For Computer Musicians', the others called 'Harmony For Computer Musicians' The relevance of the word 'computer' is a bit of a red herring because it's music whichever way you look at it but they do feature some sequencing strategies too.....I also frequent Jazz and Guitar forums ( not that I play Guitar very well at all ) but both often have 'lessons' and discussions, like trying out different modes and scales over various chords, all work just as well with keyboard sounds. Sometimes things I'd never have gone for or found come out. Obviously it's all about how you apply knowledge in your music and how creative you are but I'm of the opinion that the more knowledge the better. Some people disagree with that and say that it can be better to remain 'pure and innocent' but I find with me it comes out later on a subconscious level, like I might be jamming about and suddenly an interesting harmonic idea emerges and I know I'd probably never stumble upon it had I not been interested in learning new stuff.

A lot of great instrument players have learnt licks and phrases until they become second nature, these become part of their repertoire and are often personalised but it's also the same for anyone playing anything. Even if you have no intention of creating the next awesome rock solo, the fact that you have an capacity to fall back on musical structure to try out things you know could work can only be a good thing IMO.

[AK]

AK! nice one on those prince techniques! i love it.

some herbie for you.

That thing was seriously expensive, imagine trying to get by with that tedious sampler nowadays...

[kivetros]

Have you ever looked to see how other artists get to where they get to in some of their music? I'm not a fan of Prince but non can deny he's an extremely competent musician but I once read a music article on how he arrives at some of his musical structures and it was quite eye opening. Some of what I remember were him comping over a series of basic chords, then comping over the comping, adding new chords, removing the comping and comping again. A continuation of extended harmonic exercises, counterpoint and melody and all recorded. Then, he'd go back to the original base chords, add say the very last bit of comping and have these crazy juxtaposed musical ideas which worked but were never obvious as to how he arrived there co's all the linking 'middle' bits had disappeared.

Not something I have tried and I don't know why I just suddenly remembered it but hey. I was of the opinion that things could potentially become contrived the longer you pan them out and think about them but I guess that's not always the case. I recently read a certain Beachboys track took 60-odd days to explore all the harmonies in the vocals and a number of different studios.

I guess we're not talking commercial music here but the underlying principles are still music. One of my musical heroes is Herbie Hancock, aside from his keys skills, his use of chords and voicings are just mindblowingly awesome.

Man, that's so cool. That might explain a few things... often enough, I'll be listening to a track (be it minimal, house, techno, trance, whatever) and I'll just sit there and wonder, "How did this artist come up with a meaningful relationship between these different sounds and motifs?!" That might be part of it - creating a bunch of related content (percussion, melody, FX) from one central idea or theme, then removing the idea from the finished work.

That kinda ties in really nicely with some of the underlying concepts of minimalism in general, too... I'm gonna have to give that a try.

-K