Chords & Harmony

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AK
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by AK »

steevio wrote:
kivetros wrote:
And what do you mean by using tones as color, rather than as obvious chord notes?
for instance say you used a quadriad (or tetrad) of C D D#F, you could use only the dyad C and D and use the D# and F at very low volume to add colour (like extensions), then maybe you could invert the chord and emphaise the D# and F and play the C and D as colour, there are lots of combinations of inversions and dyads from just that one tetrachord.

i tend to leave out any major or minor thirds and 5ths or play them lightly as colours, which kind of takes away the obviousness of them, or only express them in the bass and kick. the notes of chords dont have to be played at the same velocity. theres so many ways to play groups of notes together without resorting to the classic chord progressions.
i usually do this by modulating the various oscillators volumes with envelopes.

anything goes really
It's not far from what I like to do as well to be honest. you don't have to play a chord as a 'block of notes' if you don't want to, you can easily spread things around the parts of the music. I also like to deliberately omitt certain notes of chords too, not always but you can often get less recognisable tones by doing so. When notes are in a closer proximity and clustered, I think that they sound a bit edgier and interesting and perhaps dissonant sometimes. But I'm a big fan of dissonance anyway, what some people find 'out of tune', I can find really interesting.

The main issues for me with chords are them sounding obvious and too familiar, not just the chord type but also when it's played 'as is', it can sound a little 'chordy' for want of a better word. Other times though, that might be great. I also happen to like Deep House and chords do lend themselves to that music a lot better imo.

Of course you could throw block chords out the windows and perhaps try something like counterpoint, you'd still probably create something that might hint at chords simply by any harmonies produced but they wouldn't be sticking out as block chords or anything. For me chords form an integral part of my musical style and taste though, but not in the way a song writer might use them. I don't know if that makes sense but it's not the easiest thing to explain a 'feel'.
steevio
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by steevio »

AK wrote: I don't know if that makes sense but it's not the easiest thing to explain a 'feel'.
it makes perfect sense mate.
like what you said about spreading the chord through the music, thats a good way to use 5ths and thirds, leave them out of the actual chords but use percussive sounds with those tones, but disguise them with FM etc. so that they are slightly atonal but hint at the third or 5th. this is a good way to create space in the music, yet keep a harmonic relationship.
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tone-def
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by tone-def »

i like James Brown chord progressions.
kivetros
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by kivetros »

tone-def wrote:i like James Brown chord progressions.
The Funk Cop has spoken.

Really though, there is so much good info in the last few posts... I'm just going to have to read and re-read some of this until it makes sense. I've been experimenting a little bit with that quadriad that steevio mentioned yesterday... I've never used dissonances like that before. Here's a ~30 second clip of what I've come up with:



Thank you guys for explaining things so well. I'll be experimenting more today.
AK
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by AK »

^^^Quite like that. If you like doing chord based harmony, have you ever tried writing music to a set of chords and then removing those chords after? That can be an interesting way to develop a musical idea too.

Man, everybody is on that soundcloud, I'm on a PAYG dongle so uploading and downloading are a costly thing for me but I feel like I'm missing out by not being on it.
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by kivetros »

AK wrote:^^^Quite like that. If you like doing chord based harmony, have you ever tried writing music to a set of chords and then removing those chords after? That can be an interesting way to develop a musical idea too.

Man, everybody is on that soundcloud, I'm on a PAYG dongle so uploading and downloading are a costly thing for me but I feel like I'm missing out by not being on it.
No, I've never tried that, but it looks like I'm going to have to do so now!

You are totally missing out by not being on SC mate - don't you have, say, a coffee shop that you could hit up? Somewhere public where you could get free Wi-Fi?
NoAffiliation
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by NoAffiliation »

AK wrote: I'm not talking cheesy, as I know how to avoid that but there's still something 'un-techno' about the sound when you play stuff in. At least to me.
part of that happens from you being the person who played it in, you won't hear it like a listener...

i know what you're saying though. i often think about this. i think the issue is if you're just playing a patch on the keys you are going to try and fill the space in the track with just that sound and it gets obvious. it's kind of the similar in concept to what steevio is saying, if you were to write a chord progression but play each chord on a different patch or something you would end up with a harmonically related cluster of chords, and you could probably mess around with it, detune one or something to get a really interesting progression. that's what im experimenting with recently, same for pads and stuff, just layering the chord with different synths to blend a new sound together
AK
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Re: Chords & Harmony

Post by AK »

NoAffiliation wrote:
AK wrote: I'm not talking cheesy, as I know how to avoid that but there's still something 'un-techno' about the sound when you play stuff in. At least to me.
part of that happens from you being the person who played it in, you won't hear it like a listener...

i know what you're saying though. i often think about this. i think the issue is if you're just playing a patch on the keys you are going to try and fill the space in the track with just that sound and it gets obvious. it's kind of the similar in concept to what steevio is saying, if you were to write a chord progression but play each chord on a different patch or something you would end up with a harmonically related cluster of chords, and you could probably mess around with it, detune one or something to get a really interesting progression. that's what im experimenting with recently, same for pads and stuff, just layering the chord with different synths to blend a new sound together
Yep, I do that all the time. Because I play stuff in, I need to disect it to smaller parts, essentially or potentially, I could have a lead, chords, and bass in something I have played in. Like you say, 'filling everything up' in a single patch.

I am aware of this and to be fair to myself, I tend to do it just to find ideas and interesting passages of music. I'll decide afterwards which bits might be left/moved to other instruments or whatever. If I just lay down a beat and try and build up a track as some do, I get empy head syndrome. I need a focus point to begin with, a spark of an idea or at least something other than a blank canvas otherwise I just end up with an 8 bar loop going nowhere and I can only get idea or find inspiration from actually playing.

I also think I went through a time where I was trying to force myself to be more 'techno'. I can fall into a more housey sound a lot easier but I always think being techno seems 'cooler' than being house so I was trying to force the issue a bit.
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