New Studio Build

- ask away
Hades
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:37 am
Location: Belgium

Re: New Studio Build

Post by Hades » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:08 am

why do you have to buy everything at once ?
It takes a long time to get a great setup that works well for you personally.
It also takes a long time to find out which way of working (hence which gear setup) is how you prefer to do things, and quite often discovering that comes from buying and selling some gear over the years.

if I were you, I'd spend half that cash, mostly on a puter and soundcard, and get maximum one synth for the moment.
there's also the learning curve to consider.
It takes months, sometimes well over a year to really get to know a new synth, and if you get several synths at the same time, you risk the chance to just scratch the surface with most of the gear you just got.
And no offence, but if you think from a few video's that a certain synth can only do tech-house stuff, then you might need a bit more experience in the sound design area (and I'm not saying this to sound like an asshole, it's just that this means you might be better of by getting one synth and learning it inside out before getting the next piece of gear)

Plus, there are also things you will only find out once you got a certain piece of gear. Things that are impossible for you to know upfront, no matter how well you do your research.

btw, if you want to get sound treatment, you're far better off with getting glass whool panels than those crappy foam things. They are way more effective, plus they are esthetically a lot nicer to look at.
I've gotten myself some primacoustic stuff, and I'm very happy with it. Very strong panels, and they do a great job.
I got a London room kit, plus extra bass traps.
But of course there are other brands that moke those as well.
You can even make your own if you want.
The important thing is : get glass whool if you can, not foam !

Anyway, this is just my 2 cts,
I've been "building" my studio for about 10 years now, and I'm glad to say it's about 90% finished now. The gear, the look, the sound treatment, the stands, the cabling,... and it works great for my workflow.
I should be getting it finished for 95%, but the last 5%, well that's just knowing there will always be some piece of gear that you might add some day, or finding some synth that is better at doing a job than another synth you already had, so you sell it, or ...
But I probably bought and sold around 20 synths in total, and spent a lot of money, and more importantly time by trying to find a perfect setup.

Getting a lot of things at once will only slow you down instead of speeding you up.
You will be better at deciding what to get after you get one or two pieces first, then learn how they work inside out and see how good they work for you, and only after that experience get more gear.
Slowly but certainly you willl get there.

AK
mnml maxi
mnml maxi
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:01 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: New Studio Build

Post by AK » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:16 am

Hades wrote:why do you have to buy everything at once ?.
Well if he's anything like me, it's because if I didn't spend a certain amount in one go, the cash would likely disappear on junk, beer, food and whatever else....If you have a lump sum allocated for a specific purpose and you don't manage money too well ( like me ) it's probably better to get was you were going to get instead of letting it go to waste..

:lol:

Hades
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:37 am
Location: Belgium

Re: New Studio Build

Post by Hades » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:21 pm

AK wrote:
Hades wrote:why do you have to buy everything at once ?.
Well if he's anything like me, it's because if I didn't spend a certain amount in one go, the cash would likely disappear on junk, beer, food and whatever else....If you have a lump sum allocated for a specific purpose and you don't manage money too well ( like me ) it's probably better to get was you were going to get instead of letting it go to waste..

:lol:
I used to be that way too.
But now all my money might disappear to is vinyl, and luckily, that takes a while.

I did order this thing yesterday :

http://store.thirdmanrecords.com/revolu ... table.aspx

it just looked to cool. And it's quite a bit more practical than a Technics.
Although I'm a bit sceptic about the build quality for such a rather low price.
I won't be playing some of my expensive records on it, that's for sure.

But Imagine going for a picknick and taking that thing with... :lol:

markos
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:33 am

Re: New Studio Build

Post by markos » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:09 pm

I just had a good laugh reading the last two posts :) thanks for your responses guys!

Anyway, I am sort of like AK in terms of buying gear but at the same time, I usually do A LOT of research before i buy gear. Usually this includes various articles online, google searches, in store testing, playing with producer friends toys, etc etc. In fact I have held off on buying most of this gear for over 2 years now so I know it seems like i'm jumping into a whack load of gear with no knowledge but really the only piece of kit that I am uncertain about is the Minitaur. I may even ditch the Moog Slim Phatty for a better soundcard as well (like the motu 828).

To be honest i'm still considering whether to buy a hackintosh or proper mac as well. The price difference could be drastic but as mentioned before, I am skeptical of the platform issue's that could occur after the build. Then again there is the option of sticking to a PC with windows who would want to do that! :lol:

Hades - your info about room treatment is something that I learned about today and thank you so much for your input. Out of this entire build the one thing I can honestly say i know little about is room treatment. I always assumed that the kits would be sufficient enough for a small project studio but your recommendation is something I will defiently be looking into more.

To be honest, the reason for the build is for a business plan that I have been working on over the last 2 years. After 9 plus months of job hunting, and no response back from any employer, i've decided to go into business for myself and start up my own music production school. I just thought if i can find work i might as well work for myself doing what I love. The school will allow me to teach, through events, and do what i loive most. Make music everyday.

You are right though, i don't need to buy everything at once BUT i'm only really buying like two or three pieces of kit here. and lets be honest, $5000 isn't exactly a lot of cash when part of that budget is going towards a computer. :)

Lovin the feedback so far guys. Lots of things to think about. thanks again!

Hades
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:37 am
Location: Belgium

Re: New Studio Build

Post by Hades » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:01 pm

markos wrote: ...
I usually do A LOT of research before i buy gear. Usually this includes various articles online, google searches, in store testing, playing with producer friends toys, etc etc.
...
but you'll still end up discovering things you couldn't have possibly found out when doing the research.
I'm not trying to be a prick. I'm just saying this cause that's what sooner or later happens. ;)


markos wrote: Hades - your info about room treatment is something that I learned about today and thank you so much for your input. Out of this entire build the one thing I can honestly say i know little about is room treatment. I always assumed that the kits would be sufficient enough for a small project studio but your recommendation is something I will defiently be looking into more.
no prob.
If you want some more help, just send me a PM, and we can email a bit back and forth about this.
I was new to this as well, and I learned through research I guess.
I'm no expert, but I do have a rather good sounding room now.
Getting a perfect room simply isn't possible, not unless you want to pay tons of money and hire some experts.
I could send you some pics of my studio.

markos wrote:
To be honest, the reason for the build is for a business plan that I have been working on over the last 2 years. After 9 plus months of job hunting, and no response back from any employer, i've decided to go into business for myself and start up my own music production school. I just thought if i can find work i might as well work for myself doing what I love. The school will allow me to teach, through events, and do what i loive most. Make music everyday.
be very careful with that plan my friend.
I'm not sure in what country you live, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to jump on that train lately,
and the relatively medium-sized pond is getting overfished by too many people trying to earn a buck by teaching.
I live in Belgium, and about 4 years ago, I started music-teaching as a self-employed side-profession, mostly out of frustration because there are only 3 music schools here that teach more modern stuff, and they all inevitably charge way too much money for group courses that offer nothing more than what you could find out yourself.
Anyways, I figured : "why would people want to pay for that, I can do this better and for half their price"
Well, so far it ain't like customers are keeping me very busy.
It's such a funny thing : out of maybe 20 people that show they are interested (some of them are certain they'll book me for a few lessons, or so they say), only one or two might end up doing so.
But the music schools still have their classes full... :shock:
I sometimes think this has to do with private teaching that might scare people off.
I consider it an advantage since it means the level of the lesson is not only as low as the level of the slowest pupil (which you inevitably have with group lessons), plus the content is more specifically adjusted to what the indvidual pupil wants to learn.
Maybe a lot of them are "afraid" to be confronted more with what they don't know.
There's so much "ego" involved in this electronical music thing.
No one wants to admit they don't know anything, unless it's anonimously on some forum :lol:
Or they prefer to spend that money on gear instead learning how to work better with their gear. :lol:

Anyways, since this is only a side-profession, and it enables me to get gear for a cheaper price, I don't mind too much, but I'm just saying : I'm under the impression a lot of people are trying to jump that train nowadays, and the market might be a bit over-flooded.
But I guess that also depends on the country you live in.
Or to put it briefly : if you plan on making a full-time living out of this, I doubt you'll be able to make ends meet.
And if you don't have a job for the moment, maybe you shouldn't spend all of that money just yet.
You never know what the future might bring...
But good luck with your plan anyways ! ;)

markos
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:33 am

Re: New Studio Build

Post by markos » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:58 pm

Hades wrote:but you'll still end up discovering things you couldn't have possibly found out when doing the research. I'm not trying to be a prick. I'm just saying this cause that's what sooner or later happens. ;)
Oh no no no......not saying you are a prick AT ALL :P I just disagree with you. I do do alot of research and make sure my money is well spent. I've been producing for well over 4 years now and have had the same setup since i started. The only edition I have brought on was my apc 40 a few months back, and that took me months to decide on...lol. Trust me i am not the one to spend money and sell, and spend money and sell. That to me is just a waste. Never worked like that and never will. When i say I research, i really mean it. It takes me months to decide on a piece of gear and the only time I will second guess my decision is if I am offered a new alternative (such as the many different alternatives given in this forum post). Trust, i be good with me choice boiiiii!!


Hades wrote: be very careful with that plan my friend.
I'm not sure in what country you live, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to jump on that train lately,
and the relatively medium-sized pond is getting overfished by too many people trying to earn a buck by teaching.
I live in Belgium, and about 4 years ago, I started music-teaching as a self-employed side-profession, mostly out of frustration because there are only 3 music schools here that teach more modern stuff, and they all inevitably charge way too much money for group courses that offer nothing more than what you could find out yourself.
Anyways, I figured : "why would people want to pay for that, I can do this better and for half their price"
Well, so far it ain't like customers are keeping me very busy.
It's such a funny thing : out of maybe 20 people that show they are interested (some of them are certain they'll book me for a few lessons, or so they say), only one or two might end up doing so.
But the music schools still have their classes full... :shock:
I sometimes think this has to do with private teaching that might scare people off.
I consider it an advantage since it means the level of the lesson is not only as low as the level of the slowest pupil (which you inevitably have with group lessons), plus the content is more specifically adjusted to what the indvidual pupil wants to learn.
Maybe a lot of them are "afraid" to be confronted more with what they don't know.
There's so much "ego" involved in this electronical music thing.
No one wants to admit they don't know anything, unless it's anonimously on some forum :lol:
Or they prefer to spend that money on gear instead learning how to work better with their gear. :lol:

Anyways, since this is only a side-profession, and it enables me to get gear for a cheaper price, I don't mind too much, but I'm just saying : I'm under the impression a lot of people are trying to jump that train nowadays, and the market might be a bit over-flooded.
But I guess that also depends on the country you live in.
Or to put it briefly : if you plan on making a full-time living out of this, I doubt you'll be able to make ends meet.
And if you don't have a job for the moment, maybe you shouldn't spend all of that money just yet.
You never know what the future might bring...
But good luck with your plan anyways ! ;)
I am sorry but this is going to sound a bit rude and I don't mean to be at all, but it seems to me that you are a very closed minded individual. There are a lot of factors that come into play in starting your own business and the success of your business is only possible on the amount of work and dedication that you choose to put into it. I am not saying that you are not dedicated to your craft as it sounds to me that you are a very bright individual but to simply say "be careful" and "the market is saturated" are not very valid reasons imo. Perhaps you aren't reaching your audience the way you need to be? I mean yes there are a lot of people trying to teach music production and its "saturated" but you can say that about any industry. How many clothing companies are out there, how many record labels, how many shoe brands...its all perception and product placement. If you don't place your product in the right stores and market it to the right people, then of course no ones going to buy it. You would promote Kitty Litter to families with dogs would you? The schools that have full classrooms are not full because they teach the best courses in the world, they are full because of the marketing and perception of their product that tells kids "you need to be here to be a pro dj/producer." Unfortunately it is tough for us smaller folks to compete, but you just need to be creative and spend sometime giving your product consumer value. You could be the better teacher in your home studio and say your course is far more superior and cheaper then the bigger expensive school, but in their minds there thinking "ya but they are ableton certified" or "they can get my track signed to a record label". Its all perception my friend.

My business plan is in the 2nd year of its planning process and to be honest will continue to be planned out for the next 10 years, even after I am in business. I am from Canada so I could understand that Belgium may be overly saturated as the electronic scene in Europe is far more commercialized there then here, but the truth is the idea of music production is only starting to gain popularity here. Its an untapped market and my focus is on a younger demographic. Of course you are right that the opportunity to fail is far greater then succeeding but no one can tell unless they try.

Again Hades, i am not trying to criticize you or insult you. I just believe we have two totally different perspectives on things. You do make some very valid points but i tend to be a person who looks at the glass half full :) Hope you haven't taken what i said to personally and thanks again for your comments.

P.S. Definetly post some pics of your studio. Would love to see your room treatment!

ANYWAYS....back to studio gear! lol

Hades
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:37 am
Location: Belgium

Re: New Studio Build

Post by Hades » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:41 am

markos wrote:
Hades wrote:but you'll still end up discovering things you couldn't have possibly found out when doing the research. I'm not trying to be a prick. I'm just saying this cause that's what sooner or later happens. ;)
Oh no no no......not saying you are a prick AT ALL :P I just disagree with you. I do do alot of research and make sure my money is well spent. I've been producing for well over 4 years now and have had the same setup since i started. The only edition I have brought on was my apc 40 a few months back, and that took me months to decide on...lol. Trust me i am not the one to spend money and sell, and spend money and sell. That to me is just a waste. Never worked like that and never will. When i say I research, i really mean it. It takes me months to decide on a piece of gear and the only time I will second guess my decision is if I am offered a new alternative (such as the many different alternatives given in this forum post). Trust, i be good with me choice boiiiii!!


you're not getting my point.
I'm saying there are always things about a piece of gear you can't possibly discover with research upfront. No matter how many years you've done it, or how many pages you read or whatever.
Let's give a small example : let's say you want to have a certain synth, and when you eventually buy it, it sounds great when you play it, but you notice it's totally unuseable in your productions. This happens.
Or you buy a vintage synth and you notice that the MIDI doesn't work the way it should. And I'm not talking about a known problem about certain synth A or B's MIDI, just a specific problem on your specific synth. This happens.
I could give more examples, but you get the point, no ?
There's no way you can find everything out from doing only research upfront.
Great for you you do lots of research, I ain't saying you're not,
and I'm not at all talking about the quickly buying and selling stuff.
I was only saying : there are always things you can't possibly find out by upfront research.
It's as simple as that.

I'll get back to the rest later.

markos
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:33 am

Re: New Studio Build

Post by markos » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:43 am

Hades wrote:
markos wrote:
Hades wrote:but you'll still end up discovering things you couldn't have possibly found out when doing the research. I'm not trying to be a prick. I'm just saying this cause that's what sooner or later happens. ;)
Oh no no no......not saying you are a prick AT ALL :P I just disagree with you. I do do alot of research and make sure my money is well spent. I've been producing for well over 4 years now and have had the same setup since i started. The only edition I have brought on was my apc 40 a few months back, and that took me months to decide on...lol. Trust me i am not the one to spend money and sell, and spend money and sell. That to me is just a waste. Never worked like that and never will. When i say I research, i really mean it. It takes me months to decide on a piece of gear and the only time I will second guess my decision is if I am offered a new alternative (such as the many different alternatives given in this forum post). Trust, i be good with me choice boiiiii!!


you're not getting my point.
I'm saying there are always things about a piece of gear you can't possibly discover with research upfront. No matter how many years you've done it, or how many pages you read or whatever.
Let's give a small example : let's say you want to have a certain synth, and when you eventually buy it, it sounds great when you play it, but you notice it's totally unuseable in your productions. This happens.
Or you buy a vintage synth and you notice that the MIDI doesn't work the way it should. And I'm not talking about a known problem about certain synth A or B's MIDI, just a specific problem on your specific synth. This happens.
I could give more examples, but you get the point, no ?
There's no way you can find everything out from doing only research upfront.
Great for you you do lots of research, I ain't saying you're not,
and I'm not at all talking about the quickly buying and selling stuff.
I was only saying : there are always things you can't possibly find out by upfront research.
It's as simple as that.

I'll get back to the rest later.
Yeah I understand what you mean and you are correct. I just haven't run into any problems with my methods yet but who know's, this whole synth thing could throw me off guard......lol Anyway like i said wasn't trying to be rude or anything and I have taken a lot of your points into consideration. :)

Post Reply