MIDI timing/sync issues

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AK
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by AK »

^^^^

I was looking at this part of the manual yesterday - I think it was the manual? But anyway, I read that the MnM does work best as a master clock. If I got one and slaved Live to that, I'm wondering whether that would be a tighter sync.

I haven't tried slaving Live to the MD yet, I am getting a new interface so I have to wait until that arrives until I have midi again but I'm interested to see how that works out. best to just try ever option and tweak imaginable to find the best solution I guess.
AK
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by AK »

simonb wrote:
eggnchips wrote:I know how you feel mate.
This is a real pain in the azz and one would think in this day and age that midi timing wouldn't be a problem.
I have heard good things about this company that have made it their business to sort this problem out: http://innerclocksystems.com/
Looks good but costs $$.
Had a look at that site... "Meticulously over-engineered", I like these guys! Bit out of my budget for the time being though, it seems ridiculous having to pay the best part of a grand just to get gear in sync! My day job is in telecoms and I find it a bit annoying that I'm involved with multi-gigabit synchronous technologies and so on, then I go home and can't even get my drum machine and laptop to sync up over a connectionless 1-byte protocol :P
AK wrote:Everybody keeps mentioning the interface but I'm not sure this is the reason for any timing errors, I have heard things like 2 people using almost the same set up where just one of them gets issues.
AK wrote: There's a lot that can be affecting midi timing with modern computers, worth giving this a read and applying necessary tweaks: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar00/a ... ditime.htm

I tend to work with audio a lot so even though I was getting timing issues, I'd be creating chains of patterns ( say on the MD ) and then just recording the audio into Live where obviously timing wouldn't be an issue but it's something I def need to address. Hoping to pick a new interface up today so I will at least be trying to tweaks laid out in that article.
I'll have a look at the tweaks when I get home, and yeah I'm using a Firewire interface already. I guess recording audio helps (yesterday after posting this I just recorded the hits from my machinedrum and arranged them as samples) but I quite like the option of having stuff being trigged through MIDI so I can keep tweaking sounds etc. I know some people prefer just getting it down to audio quickly so you're not tempted to go back and get into endless tweaking loops...
Can't you just use the track delay? There was a post before about how to set this up to be the extact ms timing.
Sadly not, track delay works fine for compensating for the overall latency I get of around 50ms but the timing is sloppy on a hit-to-hit basis, for example with a 4/4 kick drum each kick isn't landing precisely on the downbeat when being triggered from my computer, adjusting the track delay is like trying to beatmatch a record that keeps changing speed slightly.
How does it work when the MD is the master?
steevio
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by steevio »

Barfunkel wrote:
I'd always put the hardware as master though, I don't trust computers and midi.
personally i think its the new software like ableton etc.

i started using the original cubase on an Atari 520 back in 1992, running hardware from the software sequencer, then migrated onto cubase VST on a PC at some point, then various vesrions of cubase, and in all that time i've never once had a midi timing issue of any sort.

however ive hardly ever used audio in a DAW, so i'm not likely to have encountered any latency / delay issues, but as far as midi timing going out, nothing in 20 years.
simonb
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by simonb »

4am wrote:do you have the latest OS on your machinedrum?
http://www.elektron.se/products/machine ... =downloads
this solved my sync problems
I do, didn't seem to help much.
AK wrote: How does it work when the MD is the master?
Sync isn't any better with the MD as master, I notice that softsynths etc on the PC are similarly out of time. Especially for tempo-synced delays etc, I can hear them wobbling around.

Anyway forgetting about MIDI sync, clocks, etc for the time being; sequencing from software and sending MIDI for drum hits, synth notes, etc to my gear and the sounds coming back out-of-time is the main issue I'm having, I can live without having everything synced up...
lem
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by lem »

simonb wrote: Anyway forgetting about MIDI sync, clocks, etc for the time being; sequencing from software and sending MIDI for drum hits, synth notes, etc to my gear and the sounds coming back out-of-time is the main issue I'm having, I can live without having everything synced up...
So are you saying that from note to note it moves around? Or does it all gradually slip out of time?
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by Robot Criminal »

steevio wrote:
Barfunkel wrote:
I'd always put the hardware as master though, I don't trust computers and midi.
personally i think its the new software like ableton etc.

i started using the original cubase on an Atari 520 back in 1992, running hardware from the software sequencer, then migrated onto cubase VST on a PC at some point, then various vesrions of cubase, and in all that time i've never once had a midi timing issue of any sort.

however ive hardly ever used audio in a DAW, so i'm not likely to have encountered any latency / delay issues, but as far as midi timing going out, nothing in 20 years.
well atari had midi ports and is famous for it's tight ass midi. I've researched gearslutz and whatnot on this subject and people still swear by their ataris :D I've even concidered getting one from bay but gave up the idea eventually, I'm not that much into working with prehistoric computers. At the moment I went all hw, sequencing everything from the MPC and using the 'puter just as a recording device. And it's awesome!!
Image we are all atomic and subatomic particles and we are all wireless...
simonb
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by simonb »

lem wrote:So are you saying that from note to note it moves around? Or does it all gradually slip out of time?
It moves around from note to note.

Apologies as I've probably been a bit crap at explaining it so far but if, say, I program a beat using MIDI on my sequencer, and send that to my machinedrum, the timing varies from hit to hit so the beat isn't tight. Or if I were to program an crotchet/quarter-note pattern on a synth the notes wouldn't all hit exactly on the downbeat, each one is a bit off but not by the same amount.

To improve the analogy I made before, adjusting time delay is like mixing in a record with a live drummer - it's one thing getting the overall timing right but the timing from beat to beat is off.
lem
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Re: MIDI timing/sync issues

Post by lem »

No its not your explaining, I'm just at work and havent got the time to go through a whole thread...

Yeah I get what you mean. It doesn't happen very noticably when I do it. But if I record 16 bars of 4x4 kickdrum, 1 of those beats might be noticably out of time. Sometimes its only apparent when I try layering something over the top and I get a weird phasey type sound.

To be honest, its something I really embrace. Sometimes when I am recording from an external bit of gear with itunes or some other audio app open I get little clicks in the audio. Maybe something to do with drivers/conflicts..... But I really like it in my recordings. Sometimes not, but I wouldn't say I am a perfectionist in that respect.

I understand that it can be annoying, maybe its an issue with other applications being open? Or maybe your CPU is peaking a bit. It's really hard to say with computers these days..
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