@steevio
do you mean with analogue mixers also transistor mixers like the spirit powerstation, plus: would you consider the spirit a good mixer?
well i could basically become it for free. i wouldnt pay for a mixer at this stage i guess.
Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
But you haven't got a cheap desk, I'm primarily on about the budget solutions. I don't have an issue with analogue mixers at all, I'd have one now if Santa reappears, I just think there must be some sort of cut off point where cheaper end of the market mixers offer little or no aesthetic benefit over mixing ITB. I've had a couple of analogue mixers, one was a soundcraft but I really can't even remember what model now as it's been so long. I was also in a duo with a guy from Brum who had a huge desk and a billion quids worth of analogue drums and synths but again, that was long ago now. Since then, all I have used are cheaper end products functioning as a mixer for various devices with multiple outs. And this is the thing that kinda puts me off the idea because I'm left wondering what the fuss is. I mean, how much would someone have to spend to see any benefit to using an external mixer? Also, considering the amount spent, are the results actually that justifiable?steevio wrote:@AK
i know we've disagreed on this before, and its bit like going over old ground, but i can only assume you've never had a decent analogue mixer, or you wouldnt be so sure of your attitude towards analogue mixers.
i honestly cannot accept most of what you're saying bro, a decent analogue mixer is total luxury compared to the sterile, awkward and unergonomic environment of ITB mixing.
when ive tried to mix ITB, it takes me fifty times as long to get inferior results. i can literally put a mix together in seconds on my desk, its as intuitive and as simple as breathing.
come round for a visit, and i'll change your mind.
How much was your desk? I'm not being ignorant, I'm just thinking realistically, I have read a lot of stuff when considering purchasing bits of gear, usually on GS and form opinions based on peoples information I consider valid and it's always led me, as far as mixers go, to assume I'd have to spend in the thousands to reap any sort of sonic reward, and then of course, the big question is, is that difference worth the cost?
I dunno mate, you tell me!
Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
^^^
youre right mate, its definitely not worth it with a cheap desk. i had a huge Behringer desk (MX8000 i think ?) it was absolutely shite. the EQ was rubbish, i basically used it as a big patchbay.
but for less money you can buy a small but good quality desk.
the only reason i have a large desk, is that i have lots of hardware outputs. but my desk is not the best out there by a long way (soundcraft ghost), if i didnt need so many inputs, i would buy a better quality smaller desk.
i think soundcrafts ( and spirits ) are upper medium quality desks. i basically bought the best quality i could afford for the number of channels i needed.
and i think you're right that it would be more useful in some cases to buy analogue filters instead.
it really depends on individual circmstances, but as a generalisation, i really cant see how ITB can compete in terms of ergonomics alone with a decent quality analogue desk. i mean if i want to add a touch of saturation, a narrow focus boost on 2k, a cut around 350 Hz, a bass shelf of a few dB and level it up in the mix, i can do it with one hand in 5 seconds even while i'm in the middle of recording. a good desk is an instrument, a realtime, in the moment instrument.
i can see how if you're used to spending hours and hours carefully crafting a mix to sound exactly right by sound design, then software can produce accurate and good quality results, but if you want to actually get on with making music and not trawling through menus, assigning knobs and fucking about with a mouse, then a box with real knobs on it that put you in direct contact with the sound manipulation in realtime cannot be beaten imho
( my mixer was about £2300 when i bought it ten years ago, but you dont have to spend that sort of money to get a good mixer)
youre right mate, its definitely not worth it with a cheap desk. i had a huge Behringer desk (MX8000 i think ?) it was absolutely shite. the EQ was rubbish, i basically used it as a big patchbay.
but for less money you can buy a small but good quality desk.
the only reason i have a large desk, is that i have lots of hardware outputs. but my desk is not the best out there by a long way (soundcraft ghost), if i didnt need so many inputs, i would buy a better quality smaller desk.
i think soundcrafts ( and spirits ) are upper medium quality desks. i basically bought the best quality i could afford for the number of channels i needed.
and i think you're right that it would be more useful in some cases to buy analogue filters instead.
it really depends on individual circmstances, but as a generalisation, i really cant see how ITB can compete in terms of ergonomics alone with a decent quality analogue desk. i mean if i want to add a touch of saturation, a narrow focus boost on 2k, a cut around 350 Hz, a bass shelf of a few dB and level it up in the mix, i can do it with one hand in 5 seconds even while i'm in the middle of recording. a good desk is an instrument, a realtime, in the moment instrument.
i can see how if you're used to spending hours and hours carefully crafting a mix to sound exactly right by sound design, then software can produce accurate and good quality results, but if you want to actually get on with making music and not trawling through menus, assigning knobs and fucking about with a mouse, then a box with real knobs on it that put you in direct contact with the sound manipulation in realtime cannot be beaten imho
( my mixer was about £2300 when i bought it ten years ago, but you dont have to spend that sort of money to get a good mixer)
Last edited by steevio on Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
99% of all analogue mixers are transitor (or IC) based. there's not many tube mixers out there.hNRk wrote:@steevio
do you mean with analogue mixers also transistor mixers like the spirit powerstation, plus: would you consider the spirit a good mixer?
well i could basically become it for free. i wouldnt pay for a mixer at this stage i guess.
as far as i remember the Powerstation is a PA mixer, it's not really designed as a studio mixer, although there's not a massive difference between the two i suppose, other than you are paying for stuff you dont need.
i did once have a soundcraft live mixer, and i didnt like it to be honest, but i have no experience of this particular model.
Spirit mixers are only medium quality mixers imo
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Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
@AK
Obviously I wasn't suggesting anyone buy an ICON console, I've never even seen one in real life. I mainly used that example because Henke used to troll the ableton forums trying to defend Live against the thousands of people dissing the summing engine compared to protools or logic or asking if analog summing would help and here he is on the most expensive DAW workstation currently available doing exactly what he told hundreds of people they didn't NEED to do.
the thing about asking questions about analog summing like this is that the people replying are all probably at different levels of production. someone who buys an analog mixer and isn't that good at mixing yet is going to say the board didn't help or maybe made it worse possibly while another person who has production chops gets great results out of a mixer and uses it in creative ways... no one said anything about it having to be expensive, some of the most loved techno recordings ever done have been on cheap mackie mixers with tonnes of noise from people using the gain to saturate the channels...
one of the most basic reasons to go analogue mixing is simply that you have more headroom and thus a louder mix can be achieved without resorting to heavy compression which is necessary working ITB if you want a mix that stands up next to what's out there...
i also have a personal opinion that while maybe all the synths and what not can be replaced digitally, you can never replace physically recording sounds. it's like the difference between orange drink and orange juice. some people, like kids might even like the orange drink better
Obviously I wasn't suggesting anyone buy an ICON console, I've never even seen one in real life. I mainly used that example because Henke used to troll the ableton forums trying to defend Live against the thousands of people dissing the summing engine compared to protools or logic or asking if analog summing would help and here he is on the most expensive DAW workstation currently available doing exactly what he told hundreds of people they didn't NEED to do.
the thing about asking questions about analog summing like this is that the people replying are all probably at different levels of production. someone who buys an analog mixer and isn't that good at mixing yet is going to say the board didn't help or maybe made it worse possibly while another person who has production chops gets great results out of a mixer and uses it in creative ways... no one said anything about it having to be expensive, some of the most loved techno recordings ever done have been on cheap mackie mixers with tonnes of noise from people using the gain to saturate the channels...
one of the most basic reasons to go analogue mixing is simply that you have more headroom and thus a louder mix can be achieved without resorting to heavy compression which is necessary working ITB if you want a mix that stands up next to what's out there...
i also have a personal opinion that while maybe all the synths and what not can be replaced digitally, you can never replace physically recording sounds. it's like the difference between orange drink and orange juice. some people, like kids might even like the orange drink better
Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
exactly, i never use compression, just dont need it.NoAffiliation wrote:
one of the most basic reasons to go analogue mixing is simply that you have more headroom and thus a louder mix can be achieved without resorting to heavy compression which is necessary working ITB if you want a mix that stands up next to what's out there...
Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
i started buying analogue gear and a mixer to start playing with my own music instead of programming it.
Re: Soundcraf Spirit Powerstation Transistor mixing console
regarding to soundcraft desks : You can grab a 6000 in nice condition for about €1000 - €3000. Mine has 36 Input Channels, 8 Aux Groups. You can then spend some money on modding your desk (Jim Williams is doing some mods) or you just modify it yourself (recapping a bit here and there).
It`s nothing compared to an API or whatelse, but it`s decent fun! The EQs are sounding nice and warm (especially with the mod), master section / summing (again with the mod) pretty nice with lots of depth and width. Mic Pres aren't that good, but hey, better sounding than an ordinary Digidesign 003 Rack =)
16 Channels from my DAW are going into 16 Input CHannels of the desk. This 16 Channels are routed to the 8 Groups which are going straight into my TL Audio Fat Track (So I can choose whether to sum via the desk or via the Fat Track). The Input Channels left are taken for effekt returns. That`s it, I am leveling with desk and doing some broadband eqing and little bit routing to outboard equipment. Makes sense and is very good fun
But I am working hybrid, most EQ / Comp / Effects are done in the DAW and then send to the desk for "finalization"
Steevio : Did you do any mods on your ghost?
But it`s a big desk, so you should have enough space for it -->
It`s nothing compared to an API or whatelse, but it`s decent fun! The EQs are sounding nice and warm (especially with the mod), master section / summing (again with the mod) pretty nice with lots of depth and width. Mic Pres aren't that good, but hey, better sounding than an ordinary Digidesign 003 Rack =)
16 Channels from my DAW are going into 16 Input CHannels of the desk. This 16 Channels are routed to the 8 Groups which are going straight into my TL Audio Fat Track (So I can choose whether to sum via the desk or via the Fat Track). The Input Channels left are taken for effekt returns. That`s it, I am leveling with desk and doing some broadband eqing and little bit routing to outboard equipment. Makes sense and is very good fun
But I am working hybrid, most EQ / Comp / Effects are done in the DAW and then send to the desk for "finalization"Steevio : Did you do any mods on your ghost?
But it`s a big desk, so you should have enough space for it -->