Music theory - chord question

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Toloache
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Music theory - chord question

Post by Toloache »

Im trying to study some more music theory. it's a while i tune all my elements to one key but now i would like to use some chords.

What it isn't unclear to me is that the book im reading teach you by explaining C and Am, because it says they use only white keys and therefore are easy for the beginner. Plus, he says you can make chord with all the keys of the scale. But it doesn't explain why.

Why in other scales you cant make chord, or triads, in all the keys? Dont you take the first, third and fifth note of the scale (for the root.. then if i understand you count tree and five after the note you choose, but using the notes of the scale) to make a chord (in the end stacking two triads)? And given that every scale has seven basic notes, to my uderstanding you can make chord in every scale. Am i correct or am i being dumb?
AK
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Re: Music theory - chord question

Post by AK »

Toloache wrote:Im trying to study some more music theory. it's a while i tune all my elements to one key but now i would like to use some chords.

What it isn't unclear to me is that the book im reading teach you by explaining C and Am, because it says they use only white keys and therefore are easy for the beginner. Plus, he says you can make chord with all the keys of the scale. But it doesn't explain why.

Why in other scales you cant make chord, or triads, in all the keys? Dont you take the first, third and fifth note of the scale (for the root.. then if i understand you count tree and five after the note you choose, but using the notes of the scale) to make a chord (in the end stacking two triads)? And given that every scale has seven basic notes, to my uderstanding you can make chord in every scale. Am i correct or am i being dumb?
I'm trying to understand what you mean but there is a diatonic chord available for every note within every scale, so taking the A minor ( the natural minor scale or Aeolian mode ) you have Am, Bdim, CMaj, Dm, Em, FMaj, GMaj. That's the same pattern for all scales using that mode, if you started on B, just follow the same pattern of minor and major chords. Diatonic chords are chords that are built from the notes within the scale.

What scales can't you make a chord on all keys? Maybe you are looking at something like the Locrian mode, which is the mode built on the 7th degree of the major scale. If you started that scale on B, you'd soon realise there isn't a major or minor triad chord available as a diatonic chord on the 1st degree because there's a flattened fifth in the Locrian mode, whenever you have a flattened fifth in a scale and you want to remain diatonic, you'd use a diminished chord, in this case B-D-F.

Your post confused me a little so I'm not sure if that answers anything.
Bionic_Eye
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Re: Music theory - chord question

Post by Bionic_Eye »

if you are on ableton
look for tony chord file on youtube
very usefull
Toloache
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Re: Music theory - chord question

Post by Toloache »

Thanks AK! Yes sorry if my post was confusing, but you had been very helpfull. Basically i was asking if it was true that there are common scales in which one cannot made a chord on on every note, because the book im reading state something like this.

But i had the impression it was badly wrote in that part, because i see i can made chord in every scale, the only difference are the semitone distances of the two third.

Aniway, thanks :)

Bionic, i will look for sure. I dont had any time yesterday, i hope to find five minutes for youtube this night, im really working a lot lately!
AK
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Re: Music theory - chord question

Post by AK »

Toloache wrote: i was asking if it was true that there are common scales in which one cannot made a chord on on every note, because the book im reading state something like this.

But i had the impression it was badly wrote in that part, because i see i can made chord in every scale, the only difference are the semitone distances of the two third.
It shouldn't have stated that mate, there is a diatonic chord which can be built on every degree. Some books may seem to over-complicate things but if you are learning scales and the diatonic chords built on every degree of those scales, you really just need to learn the major scale to see how this works. It's irrelevant which root note you start on because the same pattern of chords remains the same for any major scale and it's this:

1.major, 2.minor, 3.minor, 4.major, 5.major, 6.minor, 7.diminished.

Seriously, that's all you need to know to also work out the diatonic chords of all the modes of the major scale too. So say you were looking at the major scale starting on 'C', you'd have all the white notes and the diatonic chords would be:

1.CMaj, 2.Dm, 3.Em, 4.FMaj, 5.GMaj, 6.Am, 7.Bdim

Now from that above, you may or may not be aware that the modes can be worked out. If you start on 'D' and go through all the white notes, a different pattern of tones and semitones appear and you form the 'D' Dorian mode. The chords for the 'D' Dorian mode can be easily worked out by just starting on the 2nd chord in that sequence above and following it along until C Maj end up being your last chord before you arrive back to 'D' again.

So, start the sequence on 'E', the 3rd step in that sequence and the pattern of intervals changes again which gives you the Phrygian mode, and just follow the chord sequence using 'E' as the start point to have the diatonic chords of the 'E' Phrygian mode.

Start on F, the 4th degree and you have the 'F' Lydian mode and can work out the chords yourself from the above sequence again.

Start on G, the 5th degree and you have the 'G' Mixolydian mode, chords as above etc etc

Start on 'A', the 6th degree and you have the Aeolian mode ( and natural minor scale ) chord sequence worked out as above

Start on 'B', the 7th degree and you form the Locrian mode ( the one I mentioned in the other post ) It doesn't use any chord diatonically that is different, it's 1 chord is just the diminished, the 7th chord in that sequence, followed by CMaj, etc etc.

So really, for the modes of the major scale, you only need learn the major scale or write it down because everything else falls into place. There are obviously a lot more chords that you can play in each mode whilst even remaining diatonic to the scale. Don't assume those chords are the ONLY chords, there's tons of stuff you can use without even getting into using notes outside the scale but really, to get your head around the major scale, it should be a breeze. A lot of things will fall into place then.

Once you grasp that and if wish to learn a bit more, I'd recommend learning the harmonic minor scale and the 'modes' of the harmonic minor scale. That will open you up to a lot of new possibilities. After that, check out the circle of fifths. Seriously, after that, you'd know enough to pretty much work out anything and you could learn it all in a matter of days. :)
Toloache
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Re: Music theory - chord question

Post by Toloache »

Yeah that was my only doubt, but in the end i think i grasped the basics :)

So we have the major scale, and the minor.. the minor can be subdivided in natural, harmonic (augmented seventh) and melodic (augmented sixth and seventh, but natural descending).

Tha pattern are T T S T T T S for the major and T S T T S T T for the minor and from there i can make all the basic chord in any scale.

Now im reading about augmented and diminished thirds!

It's sure a lot of fun when one grasp his head around the basics!
AK
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Re: Music theory - chord question

Post by AK »

Toloache wrote:
Now im reading about augmented and diminished thirds!
I didn't see that you replied. 'Augmented 3rds' = perfect 4th's, 'diminished 3rds'= Major 2nds ( enharmonic equivalants that's all ) For the vast majority of musical purposes, you'd just refer to those intervals as both a perfect 4th and a major 2nd respectively.

I'd always use the more common terms to describe those intervals, it just makes sense for practical application, if you were on about 5ths, a perfect 5th dropped down a semitone becomes a diminished 5th, a perfect 5th raised a semitone becomes an augmented 5th but as always with music you'll hear pedants harp on about how things should be named differently depending on context.

It's a lot easier to grasp thing when you just take things out of any musical context and go by intervals ( the major scale is used for referencing intervals ) When you realise that, you can work out any chord if someone told you to play it.

For example, if you got told to play a Cm6/9, you can use the major scale to work out what the notes in the chord are. Firstly, it is a C minor 6th with an added 9th. So what would that mean? It would mean: these notes, C/Eb/G/A/D. The reason it might be confusing to people just starting to read up on intervals is that they don't realise the major scale is used to define them.
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