The envelope thread.

[Hades]

you do like bad jokes?

to me the discussion seems a bit odd. how do you make electronic music without envelopes?

I quite liked the joke, actually.
maybe cause I'm no native speaker.

but yes, I was thinking the same thing : how could you possible not use them ?

[Hades]

( I said this in the kick thread but prob better here )

I'm wanting to get more into my envelopes, anything other than a fast attack results in the sound being out of sync, esp. with things like percussion ( shakers for example - which have a slow attack by their nature). If I want a thwip before the attack if you get me, on a sound ( like a shaker ), it's a mindfuck to get it to sit with the groove, how are other people doing this ( I'm doing it by turning 'snap-to-grid' off and going by feel )

This is seriously bugging me and I have just never got around to doing it any other way, if someone was using a hardware or analogue sequencer where you don't have access to a function like turning off snap to grid, how the hell are they keeping slow attack sounds in sync?

turning off the grid is one good way.
another one is using track delay.
you can actually use track delay to get really creative.
Sometimes you get great results if you just go nuts and try out different settings, and you can get completely new grooves by just dialing in random track delays.

If your sound is part of a whole track with percussion sounds, and not a single sound in a track, you can always route the audio out of that particular sound to another audio track, and then use the track delay on that audio track.
You can also just go mad with this technique, and use a few audio tracks that take audio from other sounds in your track, and then add all kinds of FX on them after you've used the track delay.
Your track delay can be used as a massive new delay FX that way.

[NoAffiliation]

how could you not use envelopes? (asdr not for ableton clips)

[loopdon]

I reckon there's millions of people just skipping though synth presets.
Of course there a ADSR settings applied to certain parts of the synth in
question but i am very sure lots of people wouldn't even change/adjust
any of the settings in the synth/preset. Let alone know what they do.
And that's just for amplitude. For me it was the same as for Steevio,
it took quite some time to get a grip on these things. You all must be some
smart people

[eggnchips]

I like to increase the attack time on percussive elements such as hats or maracas, taking away the thwack. It kind of blends them into the background, making them more subtle. Great if you're after that kind of mood.

[AK]

( I said this in the kick thread but prob better here )

I'm wanting to get more into my envelopes, anything other than a fast attack results in the sound being out of sync, esp. with things like percussion ( shakers for example - which have a slow attack by their nature). If I want a thwip before the attack if you get me, on a sound ( like a shaker ), it's a mindfuck to get it to sit with the groove, how are other people doing this ( I'm doing it by turning 'snap-to-grid' off and going by feel )

This is seriously bugging me and I have just never got around to doing it any other way, if someone was using a hardware or analogue sequencer where you don't have access to a function like turning off snap to grid, how the hell are they keeping slow attack sounds in sync?

thats the best way to do it mate, just by feel. ive always used shakers and other sounds with slow attacks and i just move it into position in the sequencer. i never used to use snap to grid when i was using software, apart from to get a rough groove going, then i would switch it off completely.

with an analogue sequencer in modular there's no problem, you just use a trigger delay on the preceeding trigger or gate. infact ive probably got more trigger delay modules than any other, absolutely essential for funk.
some sequencers have negative delay capability, so you can push the trigger backwards.

Yeah, I find it a bit more trciky in some hardware sequencers, I can do it easily on the Korg Triton sequencer and I have a Yamaha hardware sequencer where I can use a function to create a kind of Ableton Live 'track delay' - ( which is how I do it in there ) but I've yet to figure it out on the machinedrum and that's where I've been making shaker patterns I really like. Need to figure that out I guess.

[Opuswerk]

Groovy shakers pattern on the MD are very very tricky. imo the whole "groove" of the machinedrum isn't really the best around. I've obtained satisfying results with clever use of the delay and the LFOs, but never with enough control to my tastes. Always ended up playing them of or in ableton live.
I still dream they would implement something like the ableton groove templates in the machineDrum.

[steevio]

ok to answer tony,

i'm sure some beginners dont go as far as properly exploring envelopes, if youre using sampled loops etc..
i know i didnt fully explore their possibilities when i started out, i would just get a nice punchy decay on sounds slap some reverb on and away you go, not even thinking about what i could do with stuff like modulating the information in the sustain and release tails, to create musical reverb type effects instead of actually smoothering my sounds in effects, which was the effective and easy option.

if theres no mileage in the discussion for people, sorry, - we tried.