modular etc etc

[oblioblioblio]

John my approach is exactly that... I only play gigs where I feel safe about it... they're pretty much the only people who'll invite me anyway!

It's horrible though... I'll never be satisfied but I would rather have that line of success and failure than just going through the motions. I would slowly start to hate myself and then one day just pack it in a go all the way and get a job in the city selling 4/4 shrinkwrapped to advertising companies.

[oblioblioblio]

check these people out. saw them live.... fucking blissful improv w/ modular

this album is too much... few slow parts but when good it certainly is good.

http://www.thrilljockey.com/thrill/Moun ... joPYD9hUpw

[John Clees]

im also not saying just "one modular" was referring to many pieces of hardware...the risk and where you take your machines to and from things that do happen.. my point was, for me, it's not worth taking $5000-10,000 worth of equipment to do a 1 hour live show..for some random promoter and some random audience. sure you could put it in your rider but its not a practical way. in my opinion to have fun, present your material.. sure bringing one piece an option, playing live keys... using midi to trigger..is all live plus not pre planning your sets too makes it on the spot live as well. so yes bringing one piece is a nice live element I was more or less referring ..to everything in your own home studio set up..

sure bands with rodeo's and huge vans to only pack the gear in is an entirely different conversion...lol.

[steevio]

@ john clees

presenting your material isnt the same as improvising though. its a big difference.

i do both because its just as important to present your material as it is to improvise.

but some people need to take the risk, to their gear and their reputation, and go out and jam live in real time. there isnt really a way to compare the two things.

one of the main problems is that promoters are not necessarily willing to pay the extra money an improvised live hardware performance requires, and will do only for the top guys (although there arent that many top guys doing it either)
for me to do a live gig, i need to practice everyday, i have to take down my studio and pack it up 2 days before the gig, then drive to the gig the next day if its a long way, then day 3 set up / gig /take down, day 4 drive home, day 5 set-up studio again.
that is all work that generally you arent being paid for with a normal fee, also you may need a roadie to help you.
So i can only do a gig when i'm being properly paid for it, and of course a good party that is worth all the effort.

its way more easy to do a gig with synths and drum machines etc.. than all on a modular, and i dont just mean because you can save patches/patterns/sequences etc...

from 1993 till 2000 i gigged regularly with all my studio kit, 909, 2 x 303, sh101, 24 channel Mackie desk, effects rack, Atari 1040,and from 95 on a Nord Lead, sherman Filterbank, and it didnt seem at all like a big deal. There was no choice ! if you wanted to play live thats what you had to do. Everyone did it.
So whats the difference now ? only that it is easier to just take a laptop and a controller, and that that has become the norm.

Gigging with a large modular is way more difficult, and your kit is way more vunerable.

i dont advise it to be honest, but paradoxically i hope to see more people doing it in the future.

please dont misunderstand me, i'm not saying one thing is better than the other, i'm just commenting on personal satisfaction thats all. In many ways its way more stressful and less enjoyable at the time to take lots of kit on the road.

[John Clees]

presenting your material isnt the same as improvising though

I think that is a matter of opinion...

the "improvisation" is what direction you go, what things to use, what samples/loop to layer on top of one another, what samples to trigger, what effect to place where, ect..

when you getting 4/5 tracks and perhaps even different loops going, its completely improvising. things : for me, are completely unplanned. I do know artist that have their own live set all planned out, this is not what I'm referring to. there is a starting point and that's it.. there can and is different ways to improvise. my point is, both are.. but are different ways of doing it.

one of the main problems is that promoters are not necessarily willing to pay the extra money an improvised live hardware performance requires,

Gigging with a large modular is way more difficult, and your kit is way more vunerable.

that is the main point I was trying to make... no one truly cares enough and/or for the most part aren't willing to cover that type of expense..

[steevio]

presenting your material isnt the same as improvising though

I think that is a matter of opinion...

the "improvisation" is what direction you go, what things to use, what samples/loop to layer on top of one another, what samples to trigger, what effect to place where, ect..

when you getting 4/5 tracks and perhaps even different loops going, its completely improvising. things : for me, are completely unplanned.

lets us agree to disagree,
when i play on Ableton i use lots of layers and loops and mash it up as i go along, and yes that is a type of improvising, but for something to be 100% improvised everything must happen in the moment, you must create the sounds, the patterns in real time,

its not the same if you have loops and sections of music saved which you know work and are synched up to everything else, its virtually impossible to go wrong. you could also say it was a type of extreme DJing. thats what it feels like when i'm doing it.

ok its a matter of opinion, but for me the instrument has to be a blank canvass for true improvisation, and as this is going to turn into one of those circular debates going nowhere, i'm opting out. i'm sure there's plenty on people on both sides of the fence.

[John Clees]

lets us agree to disagree,

no need to really.. you continue to use the term "improvising" and that is what we are discussing...
and by the definition of the word you keep using : improvise you are not correct.

found @ dictionary.com

im·pro·vise
[im-pruh-vahyz] Show IPA verb, im·pro·vised, im·pro·vis·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.to compose and perform or deliver without previous preparation; extemporize: to improvise an acceptance speech.
2.to compose, play, recite, or sing (verse, music, etc.) on the spur of the moment.
3.to make, provide, or arrange from whatever materials are readily available: We improvised a dinner from yesterday's leftovers.

* it even uses the example leftover dinners... your now adding, you have to make it that same day fresh from the oven in order for that to be improvising. your changing the meaning to suit your argument, and that is not how truth works.. .

for something to be 100% improvised everything must happen in the moment, you must create the sounds, the patterns in real time,

saying "you must" is pretty egotistical...
that is your extended perception of the word.. now you are adding words and the term 100%...
changing the discussion and adding words in front of the word we were discussing ...
as an attempt to benefit your side..... to make a point..
~nice!


p.s. I can appreciate your purest approach strongly.. I truly do.. but use the term by the very definition .... you are not correct... with that stance, I could easily argue well you didn't write the track on the spot, kicks/claps/hats - that very second, so that's not improvising.. lol to improvise is things on the fly, not touching buttons on a modular to shape the track.. that would be playing live keys/modular on top of improvising a live set..

you presentation is your own, but your personal presentation approach can't change the definition of the English word.. even if you try to argue strongly to make yourself sound more like a purest.. good effort tho.. lol..

[steevio]

so you've had a good old LOL at me,

so how about instead of using the definition of improvisation at food@dictionary.com LOL

you use the one in wikipedia for music;

Musical improvisation (also known as musical extemporization) is the creative activity of immediate ("in the moment") musical composition, which combines performance with communication of emotions and instrumental technique as well as spontaneous response to other musicians.[1] Thus, musical ideas in improvisation are spontaneous, but may be based on chord changes in classical music,[1] and indeed many other kinds of music. One definition is a "performance given extempore without planning or preparation."[2]

no mention of using leftovers there.

so you simply did exactly what you are accusing me of doing, twisting things to suit you argument,

and just for the record i never use claps in my music, i create my hi-hats on the fly from various modules, and the only thing that you can accuse me of is using a kick drum module, well that is an instrument in its own right which has to be played too. you couldnt improvise guitar music without a guitar.

try having this argument with a jazz musician.

btw i'm not a purest at all, and i have made it plain that i'm only talking about my preference as a musician in terms of satisfaction. If i was a purist i wouldnt dream of using Ableton, as it is 95% of my gigs are performed on Ableton, and very few on my modular. Before i started making electronic music i was a guitarist and improvisation was my job for 20 years. One of the reasons i moved to a modular recently was because i was not getting the satisfaction that i used to get from improvisation as a guitarist, on the electronic music platforms i've used over the years.

this is all i'm talking about. you've obviously taken it personally.

and why are you having a go at me for using the term 100% ?
its fairly simple really, if your music is 100% improvised then everything about it is improvised, nothing is pre-recorded, there is nothing saved as a patch, pattern, sequence in memory.

you cant say some music is 100% improvised if its a guy noodling along on a keyboard to a pre-recorded backing track. OK the guy is improvising, but the music is not 100% improvised.
this is not too difficult to understand.