Analogue mixers

[steevio]

^^^
that was my point, it is the same thing in theory, i was trying to illustrate why i didnt understand s.k.'s paradox.

he seems to think clipping is unique to the digital world, when infact it came originally from the analogue world, like most things digital.

unless i completely missunderstood s.k.'s point

the only difference is that digital clipping usually sounds like shite, whereas analogue clipping is sometimes desirable.

[steevio]

what i tried to say next was that, if you happen to use filters after the saturation process, it practically makes no difference if you saturated it with a mixer, or just clipped it digitally!

excuse me for any unclear expressions, hangover is hard

sorry to give you more of a headache mate, but i think it does make a difference.

there are nuances to absolutely every piece of kit and software. you cant really say that there is no difference between two techniques. every link in the chain of any process has an effect on the outcome, unless there is an overiding process, say like a brickwall limiter. a filter can be opened and closed during its opreation by say an envelope, ( which is a normal way to use a filter) therefore it may allow higher harmonics through at some point, therefore it does matter how you process the signal before it reaches the filter.

or maybe i'm completely missing the point of what youre saying mate,

ps. i'm not being argumentative just for the sake of it, i genuinely dont understand your point.

[Hades]

what i tried to say next was that, if you happen to use filters after the saturation process, it practically makes no difference if you saturated it with a mixer, or just clipped it digitally!

excuse me for any unclear expressions, hangover is hard

sorry to give you more of a headache mate, but i think it does make a difference.

there are nuances to absolutely every piece of kit and software. you cant really say that there is no difference between two techniques. every link in the chain of any process has an effect on the outcome, unless there is an overiding process, say like a brickwall limiter. a filter can be opened and closed during its opreation by say an envelope, ( which is a normal way to use a filter) therefore it may allow higher harmonics through at some point, therefore it does matter how you process the signal before it reaches the filter.

or maybe i'm completely missing the point of what youre saying mate,

ps. i'm not being argumentative just for the sake of it, i genuinely dont understand your point.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I think s.k. is trying to say : if you process the signal heavily with a filter (or other stuff) afterwards, the difference between digital clipping and analog clipping can be neglected as it will be very small.
I think he's speaking generally, and not thinking about how the extra harmonics you do bring in with analog clipping can be let through by your filter's envelope (or LFO or whatever) afterwards at some point.
He's kind of saying like "you'll barely hear the difference if yo filter the signal afterwards anyway."

hydrogen's reference to Herman's video about his filterbank is actually a good one I think. Herman explains it rather well.
his Flemish accent is terrible though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJB76-dnf2U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BWcdxqo ... re=related

[Hades]

Herman's explanation starts around 5:30 in the first video btw.

[steevio]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I think s.k. is trying to say : if you process the signal heavily with a filter (or other stuff) afterwards, the difference between digital clipping and analog clipping can be neglected as it will be very small.
I think he's speaking generally, and not thinking about how the extra harmonics you do bring in with analog clipping can be let through by your filter's envelope (or LFO or whatever) afterwards at some point.
He's kind of saying like "you'll barely hear the difference if yo filter the signal afterwards anyway."

thats what i thought he meant but i disagree.

digital clipping is undesirable, because it is 'lost' information. this is why you get a warning of clipping when you burn a CD for instance, and why you get horrible crackles on clipped digital material. it is something to be avoided, or 'repaired'

analogue clipping can produce 'warmth' 'fatness' 'compression' etc and is a desirable effect to many producers.

i dont understand how you can equate the two things in practice, in theory yes, in a recording environment no.

edit; ok i get it, you are talking about digital emulation of analogue clipping not 'digital clipping'

still no comparison as far as i'm concerned, and really you can't speak generally about filters as if they are all Low passes with their cut offs set in one position, filters are designed to be opened and closed, and what about hi-pass filters ?

[steevio]

Herman's explanation starts around 5:30 in the first video btw.

Herman is ace .

half the pots on my filterbank got all scratchy after 10 years of abuse, and when i asked to buy new ones, he sent me them free of charge and paid for the shipping himself, he only asked that i say nice things about the filterbank !

so here it is - the filterbank is fucking ace !!
ive used it on every track since i bought it.

that mofo makes the bats in my attic sing !

[Hades]

and really you can't speak generally about filters as if they are all Low passes with their cut offs set in one position, filters are designed to be opened and closed, and what about hi-pass filters ?

that was exactly what I was thinking about 5 min after I wrote my previous post.
"well, this point is only really valid if you use a LP filter with nothing going on modulation wise"
as soon as you start using other types of filters than LP, all the extra harmonics can mean extra flavour.

plus, and I do truely believe this, even if you use a LP filter, the better the signal is before you run it through the filter, the better the outcome of the filter will be.

I guess, in the end, it usually comes down to what you're used to (ITB or not, quality of gear you use,...) and how anal you are about sound.
I admit, I am anal, at least when it comes to sound

[s.k.]

yeah i think we all understand each other perfectly too. steevio i see you are right and clipping actually is of analogue origin. though i still claim that clipping an AD convertor is a digital operation, which some wrongly call analogue clipping (which in turn seems to be another thing...). ok i'm off to get some sleep, cheers