'sub' bass tech bass something something

[edium]

So basically i've been looking into making progressive basslines, i've read an okay amount about bass, frequencies etc.

so to put things into context, look up michael woods - nitro
that bassline - I've talked to my friend about this, and he says its just really heavy sub, which it obviously is, but you can't hear just heavy sub on sub-par speakers. there is something else to the bassline and i was wondering if anyone has an idea on how to make this subby but audible bass sound.

i know to make a full bass sound you can incorporate sine waves(the sub) and squares an octave up saws etc on multi-oscillators but the sound isn't always what you're aiming for.. i am new to producing and would really like to learn.

i've tried EQing sub sounds, ASDRing 808 kicks but all i really get is sort of a semi-punch on bad speakers because it is obviously all sub-bass - and i obviously want it to sound good on any pair of speakers. i don't know i find it really hard to find the exact sound I want in many cases - but then again if it was that easy then we'd all be screwing supermodels and the likes huh

[simonb]

Have you tried a bit of distortion/saturation? It's another way of adding higher harmonics to make the sound more audible in the higher ranges, I find a bit of it helps bring subby bass out on smaller speakers.

[XIII NRV]

Filtering a sin is pointless btw.

[NoAffiliation]

use more than one oscillator and layer a waveform with more harmonics an octave higher and filter it down.

if you're on ableton build a rack to split the signal into two parts. then use eq and utility on the higher frequencies and spread the stereo width, keeping only the very low end in the center. so take the utility and go past 100% stereo on the hi bass until it sits nicely in the mix. you will need to adjust gain while doing this as well

btw, filtering a sine is not pointless, because unlike by textbook definition a sine in real life is more than just a single fundamental. i know plenty of people who use it to great effect by bumping up that resonance on a low filtered sine wave to get huge rumble

[AK]

btw, filtering a sine is not pointless, because unlike by textbook definition a sine in real life is more than just a single fundamental. i know plenty of people who use it to great effect by bumping up that resonance on a low filtered sine wave to get huge rumble

What do you mean, 'in real life'? A pure sine wave is an artificial sound. It's a pure tone and is generated by electronic oscillation, not nature. Sounds can be stripped back to a series of sine waves as explained by the Fourier series ( or built up with - like additive synthesis ) but nothing in 'real life' contains only a pure tone.

So are you saying a sine wave contains more harmonics than the fundamental? Where have you got this information from and with what can you back it up with?

In terms of a resonant filter on a sine wave, try this: Create an EQ with a narrowish Q width, a 6db boost and set an 80hz sine to loop over. Now sweep the EQ from hi to low slowly, all you will hear is an amplitude boost of the signal as the q width approaches 80hz and the curvature starts to increase the volume of the tone. There's no harmonics that are perceptible at all.

I'm interested in how you can back this up because it goes against everything I am aware of and have learned.

[steevio]

btw, filtering a sine is not pointless, because unlike by textbook definition a sine in real life is more than just a single fundamental. i know plenty of people who use it to great effect by bumping up that resonance on a low filtered sine wave to get huge rumble

What do you mean, 'in real life'? A pure sine wave is an artificial sound. It's a pure tone and is generated by electronic oscillation, not nature. Sounds can be stripped back to a series of sine waves as explained by the Fourier series ( or built up with - like additive synthesis ) but nothing in 'real life' contains only a pure tone.

So are you saying a sine wave contains more harmonics than the fundamental? Where have you got this information from and with what can you back it up with?

In terms of a resonant filter on a sine wave, try this: Create an EQ with a narrowish Q width, a 6db boost and set an 80hz sine to loop over. Now sweep the EQ from hi to low slowly, all you will hear is an amplitude boost of the signal as the q width approaches 80hz and the curvature starts to increase the volume of the tone. There's no harmonics that are perceptible at all.

I'm interested in how you can back this up because it goes against everything I am aware of and have learned.

absolutely.

theres is no point in filtering or EQing a sinewave, its just one frequency in 'real life' too.

i can guarantee if i put a sinewave from any of my VCOs through my oscilloscope its will be a perfect or near perfect sinusoid with no harmonics at all.

the rumble that No Affiliation is referring to, is probably the rumble created due to interference between the actual sinewave and the sinewave created by self oscillation of the filter at a different frequency, which doesnt require the original sinewave at all. that interference sounds horrible and is useless as a bottom end unless you want a tuneless dischordant mess for bass.

[AK]

That crossed my mind as soon as I posted that, if the filter was capable of self oscillation, its own tone might cause confusion. But like you say, that wouldn't even require a signal. I also think some people presume somethings happening when they add a resonant filter or eq boost a sine but they're just increasing the volume of the original. Like I have heard someone say, "well I boosted the frequency an octave higher and it made a difference". To me, that just indicates a small part of the eq curve is reaching down to slightly boost the fundamental frequency and the volume increase, coupled with not really knowing what is going on, causes them to think that.

It would be no different than a simple increase in volume on the mixer channel or synth etc.

Also, not to be confused with something like overdriving a pure sine into a mixer or whatever to create harmonics through distortion and then somehow thinking they were present in the sine wave to begin with.

I've heard about 'missing fundamentals', like where partials are heard above a 'missing/removed' fundamental causing it to sound like the fundamental is there when it actually isn't but that's something else entirely.

[hydrogen]

starting to think that sine wave as low end is not as useful. better to use a filtered square or saw that already has some of the fundamentals you need and smooth them out with a filter.

here is an example of some good sub bass that almost sounds like a sine... but i'm not sure what it really is. just sounds really good to my ears.


bruno is the master of this sound imo.