cliched minimal sound

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lem
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by lem »

steevio wrote:
Good post Steevio, I am gonna watch it on my lunch.
It has been a topic that has come up loads recently. I think I am gonna try to produce some stuff in other time sigs, the only reason I never have is that I have had some weird idea that it would make it really hard to mix (Dj) properly. But I am less concerned now that I am focusing on live performance and have more control over the music.
I do find it more fun dancing to music that is a bit disorientating*, but I always think thats the elitist in me.
It's odd how until this thread I have never really considered different time sigs.

*Not saying all 7/8 etc makes it disorientating, but I can't think of the right word for it. Like when you know something is different....
Barfunkel
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by Barfunkel »

I know polyrhythms, I sometimes use those, especially 7/8 X0xbox acid lines over a 4/4 beat. I thought we were talking about entire tracks in 7/8 and such.
AK
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by AK »

lem wrote:
*Not saying all 7/8 etc makes it disorientating, but I can't think of the right word for it. Like when you know something is different....
The actual structure of something like 7/8 might make things 'different' or disorientating as a master meter or something, maybe not when it's over say a 4-to-the-floor kick. I find different time signatures hard to grasp from a dance perspective but when there's a solid kick like above, you feel it as polyrhythm/polymetering. At least that's the way my brain interprets it.

Some software sequencers really make it difficult to have true polyrhythmic or polymetering music but if you have step sequencing devices you can easily get into polyrhythm/meter in software. In fact, something like Reason makes this a breeze. Monophonic synth lines can be created with the matrix pattern sequencer that can be given their own step value as well as the redrum as these patterns will loop over playing against the master time sig setting. I find this really awkward to do in anything besides reason to be honest.

I was experimenting with basic stuff just the other day where I set the master time sig to 3/4 loaded some machinedrum percussion samples into a redrum and set the step length to 12 steps. I made a variety of patterns but the initial pattern was a simple 3/4 orientainted rhythm. Imagine the sentence, "Not Diff-I-Cult,Not-Diff-I-Cult" going over and over which would be a triggered event on steps 1/3/4/5/7/9/10/11 in a 12 step length pattern with a master time of 3/4.

A different redrum sequencer set up was playing a 16 step pattern of a 4 to the floor kick with an offbeat shaker and I had a bass synth also playing a sparse riff that would conform to 4/4. As brutally basic as that is, and looping over to bar 9 and back, the 3/4 pattern from the percussion against the 4/4 sounding stuff was interesting enough to push it a lot further. I got a bit more complicated after that when things got going and it would be confusing to try and word it but I wanted to avoid 4/4 type structure when bringing in other elements. These pattern devices in reason have up to 64 steps so you can easily set up a lot of small riffs of different lengths to come in and out at different points and don't need to worry about pasting them into a linear arrangement page. I just grab the end marker and f*ck it right off to the right for like miles and with a load of patterns in the slots, start having a jam.

I'm at an experimental point though with all this to be honest and I kinda shyed away from it for a while ( we've talked about this a load on here ) and I was struggling how to get into it with software to experiment.

That Numerology looks perfect for this but it's Mac only and besides reason, I no of no other pc environment that actually makes this accessible. :?:
oblioblioblio
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by oblioblioblio »

music for me is always connected to things in real life. rhythms tap into our subconscious mind. many functions of the body are connected to rhythm.

The military knew this when they made music for soldiers to march to.

I want my mind to dance to things that i didn't know existed. To find new ways to move. To lose myself. To have fun. plodding 1 foot in front of the other music can kiss my arse.

Further tangent but with certain musical machines (modular hardware or software) you can have rhythms that are not tied into anything, constantly dancing tempos.

For me, the emotional content and overall vibe of the music is also really important in how it makes me dance.
steevio
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by steevio »

Barfunkel wrote:I know polyrhythms, I sometimes use those, especially 7/8 X0xbox acid lines over a 4/4 beat. I thought we were talking about entire tracks in 7/8 and such.
this is what i'm trying to get at.

if you make a minimal track in 7/8 but say with a 4/4 kick and mix it with another track in 4/4, you get a similar effect to if you put an acid line in a 4/4 track, as long as the music is minimal theres very little difference.
if the music is mostly percussive it is really easy to get good mixes.
lem
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by lem »

AK wrote: That Numerology looks perfect for this but it's Mac only and besides reason, I no of no other pc environment that actually makes this accessible. :?:
I know that you can do such things with Max4live, loads of step sequencers around for that. Plus you have the ability to mash a few different elements together to really personalise your sequencer. I was supprised at how easy some of it is. But then if you just want to make music...it can just be a massive time eater.
steevio
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by steevio »

AK wrote:
I'm at an experimental point though with all this to be honest and I kinda shyed away from it for a while ( we've talked about this a load on here ) and I was struggling how to get into it with software to experiment.

That Numerology looks perfect for this but it's Mac only and besides reason, I no of no other pc environment that actually makes this accessible. :?:
i managed from 1993 to about two years ago with various versions of cubase to make polymetric music, its all ive ever done, its often just a simple case of looping your midi grooves around 5 beats, 7 -16th notes, 9 - 8th notes etc etc.. this is the same as using a step sequencer set to an odd number of steps.

the secret is perseverance, you have to learn where to put accents etc. you have to stick with it.

try just one day of only working with say 7step percussive sequences over a 4/4 kick and bass. dont let anything deflect you, and stay well away from 2/4 snare/clap. this is the mistake most people make when trying to using odd numbered polymeters.
then try adding the odd bass note in 7 step, as syncopation to the 4/4 bass,
then try swapping elements around between the two meters.

after a few days try the same with 5step

after a week try mixing both 7 and 5 step sequences together with a 4/4 kick.

on and on.........

remember that non-tonal percussive elements are easier to mix than tonal elements, because your brain tend to follow the melody, and may get confused if you havent paid enough attention to detail, whereas your body just moves to the percussion.
same goes with bass, its easier to mix meters than with say with a lead line, because bass lies somewhere between tonal and percussive.

polymetric melody is harder work, the old acid tunes worked because they were very simple loops, so its best to stick with simplicity to start with.
Last edited by steevio on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Phase Ghost
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Re: cliched minimal sound

Post by Phase Ghost »

AK wrote: That Numerology looks perfect for this
It is. 8)
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