A lot of filter modules have vca's built in. I have 3 filters (A-102, A-106-1 and Z2040) at the moment and 2 out of 3 have a VCA.
Honestly, I find my doepfer filters to be just as good as the z2040 build and quality wise. The Z2040, however, has a lot more functionality packed into a small frame. I enjoy all of them equally and generally use them for different things. That comes from using and getting to know a filter though. Can't really explain it.
As mentioned, cwejman stuff is super precise (and super expensive). I'd love to have one of their filters. Not any day soon though. I do have their oscillator and can verify the precision and overall awesomeness of it.
I'd probably recommend reading the different descriptions of all the filters and make your decision that way. Maybe get one vanilla moog or SSM2044 clone type filter and than something off the wall like the A-107 or a polivoks.
Filter Modules
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Phase Ghost
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Re: Filter Modules
hm i'm confused now. are you saying that if i run audio through the filter i don't need a VCA to hear the sound? will investigate that.marcneyen wrote: I'd say that a VCA isn't necessary by all means if you want to process external sources mainly but once you get started using oscillators and envelopes, creating synth sounds, you'll definitely need one or more.
yeah i know i need VCA's and i know it's an essential part of any good system, but want to start slow - so was wondering about ways to get just a filter/envelope and still have sound out of it. actually i'm not planning to buy any oscillators.
useful info guys, since i'll be going on a 'one module at a time' basis, i think i'll be able to buy the little more expensive ones, which hopefully will can sell if i dont like.
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Phase Ghost
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Re: Filter Modules
Yes, you can run audio through a filter without running it through a VCA module first. However, the signal will need amplified to modular levels. I use the A-119 to process my bass guitar and any line level instruments or external audio. It has an envelope follower also that has come in very very handy.
Re: Filter Modules
huh i was thinking the VCA should be after the filter... what do you mean with "to modular levels"?
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Phase Ghost
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Re: Filter Modules
You can use a VCA anywhere you want really. It can control the sound anywhere in the chain. The most basic subtractive synthesis model usually goes like this:
Oscillator / Envelope ->VCA-> Filter->output
I suppose there's no reason why you couldn't add the VCA after the filter. I've done it before and after, but never just after. You just gave me an idea!
As far as "modular levels". Audio signals in a modular synth are from -5 to +5 volts. +5 is super hot compared to most everything else. I think 0db is less than a volt, so you can imagine how loud a signal needs to be up to 5v. The A-119 has a preamp built in for this. I suppose you could really crank your mixer or audio interface, but the A-119 (or something similar) works nicely. Plus, the envelope follower makes it so awesome when using external sources.
Oscillator / Envelope ->VCA-> Filter->output
I suppose there's no reason why you couldn't add the VCA after the filter. I've done it before and after, but never just after. You just gave me an idea!
As far as "modular levels". Audio signals in a modular synth are from -5 to +5 volts. +5 is super hot compared to most everything else. I think 0db is less than a volt, so you can imagine how loud a signal needs to be up to 5v. The A-119 has a preamp built in for this. I suppose you could really crank your mixer or audio interface, but the A-119 (or something similar) works nicely. Plus, the envelope follower makes it so awesome when using external sources.
Re: Filter Modules
couple of things:
i have around 50 doepfer modules and not one of them creates any hiss.
theres nothing inferior about doepfer modules, they are generally more 'modular' than the more esoteric makes like the excellent Cwejman, which are often are 3 or 4 modules in one.
to explode a myth about VCAs - they arent actually amplifiers, they are attenuators.
so you dont need them to 'amplify' the audio coming from your VCOs filters etc.
the signal coming from your VCO is audio level to start with. you can plug a VCO straight into your mixer and its already at line level.
you can put your VCA before or after your filter for different effects, ( the Tiptop Audio Z2040 for instance has the option to do this from a jumper on the PCB )
the usual use of a VCA is to modulate the amplitude of your signal, ie. to apply accents, velocity etc..
buying used modules is usually very safe, the people selling them are geeks just like you, and are only selling them to buy different modules because maybe they didnt fit with their plans.
if you buy via the Muffwiggler site you should have no problems.
i have around 50 doepfer modules and not one of them creates any hiss.
theres nothing inferior about doepfer modules, they are generally more 'modular' than the more esoteric makes like the excellent Cwejman, which are often are 3 or 4 modules in one.
to explode a myth about VCAs - they arent actually amplifiers, they are attenuators.
so you dont need them to 'amplify' the audio coming from your VCOs filters etc.
the signal coming from your VCO is audio level to start with. you can plug a VCO straight into your mixer and its already at line level.
you can put your VCA before or after your filter for different effects, ( the Tiptop Audio Z2040 for instance has the option to do this from a jumper on the PCB )
the usual use of a VCA is to modulate the amplitude of your signal, ie. to apply accents, velocity etc..
buying used modules is usually very safe, the people selling them are geeks just like you, and are only selling them to buy different modules because maybe they didnt fit with their plans.
if you buy via the Muffwiggler site you should have no problems.
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Phase Ghost
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Re: Filter Modules
Nice. Didn't realize this had a jumper for that on it.steevio wrote: you can put your VCA before or after your filter for different effects, ( the Tiptop Audio Z2040 for instance has the option to do this from a jumper on the PCB ).
On a related note, I really hope they release another filter. This one is so boss.
He's right on here. I just sold a module and wrapped it with a six inch cushion of bubble wrap around it. That's generally how I receive used stuff as well.steevio wrote: buying used modules is usually very safe, the people selling them are geeks just like you, and are only selling them to buy different modules because maybe they didnt fit with their plans.
if you buy via the Muffwiggler site you should have no problems.
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oblioblioblio
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Re: Filter Modules
had a couple of dodgy transactions with stuff not well looked after but generally people know their sh!t on that forum, and certainly everyone is passionate and friendly. Modular really suits changing stuff around, especially as it's not always easy to get to know modules unless you spend some time with them in the flesh, so buy/sell/trade is a really important aspect. There have been several scams...so watch out on that and trade with regular people or ask for references or something.
Doepfer.... meh, I don't like his style for module design, but like mentioned, the quality is not poor, and some of his audio modules are very very highly spoken about. And his logic/sequencing/trigger modules can form part of a highly functional system.
Muffwiggler is honestly the best place for info. There are some talented mofos on that forum.
My personal favourite filters are Livewire Frequensteiner, Wiard Borg1/Borg2, Boogie , and the Metasonix tube filters. For me, it's significant how the filter fits in with the rest of the signal chain. The filter is totally complimetary with the oscillator and any waveshaping that might happen, and any decision about filter suitability must also consider what the filter needs to filter. It's also worth noting that very often a filter is actually there to ADD as well as subtract.
Be prepared to work fuckin hard to find the right info... lots of it is still undiscovered, and lots of it is in funny places. For me personally on the forum I answered some questions really well the first time, but then when someone asks without searching I give a less detailed answer. SOme pieces of info can only come from experience, or pop up unexpectedly.
Doepfer.... meh, I don't like his style for module design, but like mentioned, the quality is not poor, and some of his audio modules are very very highly spoken about. And his logic/sequencing/trigger modules can form part of a highly functional system.
Muffwiggler is honestly the best place for info. There are some talented mofos on that forum.
My personal favourite filters are Livewire Frequensteiner, Wiard Borg1/Borg2, Boogie , and the Metasonix tube filters. For me, it's significant how the filter fits in with the rest of the signal chain. The filter is totally complimetary with the oscillator and any waveshaping that might happen, and any decision about filter suitability must also consider what the filter needs to filter. It's also worth noting that very often a filter is actually there to ADD as well as subtract.
Be prepared to work fuckin hard to find the right info... lots of it is still undiscovered, and lots of it is in funny places. For me personally on the forum I answered some questions really well the first time, but then when someone asks without searching I give a less detailed answer. SOme pieces of info can only come from experience, or pop up unexpectedly.