I have some gripes with the way a lot of techno is produced

- ask away
N - Jay
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:37 am
Location: Rotterdam, NL

Re: I have some gripes with the way a lot of techno is produ

Post by N - Jay »

simonb wrote:fck the bad music and the DJs who play it, just ignore it and do your own thing and do it better :)

I definitely agree with this one though:
Shepherd_of_Anu wrote:2. track length
Tracks don't have to be 8 minutes long. In fact, the longer the track is the more likely it is to require a lot of repetitive loops filling the time up. If you can create an 8+ minute track where each part of the song is distinctive and meaningful then good. If I can hop around a track indiscriminately with a needle or mouse and hear the exact same loop throughout the track then its probably not going to be very good.
If the track is pushing over six minutes it is red lining in terms of time.

If a track is longer than 8 or 9 minutes it had better do something exciting or at least have a good opportunity to mix it out halfway through. When I'm previewing a track and see a long length I'm always extremely wary.
That's funny cause some minimal/techno wtf you call it classics have been written by Ricardo and Luciano. Their strength is repetition with subtle changes. I can listen to those loops for long time. What do you think of that? And not every part is distinct in their tracks. I think it has a hypnotic vibe for me as a clubber/dj.
Shepherd_of_Anu
mnml maxi
mnml maxi
Posts: 624
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:14 am
Location: The space between space

Post by Shepherd_of_Anu »

I am not saying that all tracks that have the qualities I listed are necessarily rubbish.
kdgh wrote:Lot's of DJ's nowadays take the safe way and buy and spin the stuff that'll always work and the audience likes.
This is part of what I am getting at. I get the feeling that a lot of producers don't actually try mixing their tracks with other music very much. I think that mixing your productions in with other tracks should be a part of the creative process. It would help to expose shortcomings you might not pick up just listening to the music on its own. A well designed track should be fun to mix with and offer some flexibility in mixing it.

About DJs taking the safe way out... well a guy probably is going to avoid playing tracks that are not conducive to a clean mix even if its a good track because bad mixing tend to stand out more in peoples minds than good tracks.
simonb wrote:If a track is longer than 8 or 9 minutes it had better do something exciting or at least have a good opportunity to mix it out halfway through. When I'm previewing a track and see a long length I'm always extremely wary.
Yeah, a really long track is ok if there are opportunities to jump in and out throughout. Like maybe the track is a little sparser in the beginning but the last third of the track is denser with sound or has some stronger elements. Maybe you just want to mix in the first couple of minutes or maybe you just want that last section. If there are clear phases in the track then its good to have opportunities in the track to mix in or out. Some tracks... its like once you start playing them you are kind of locked in for the duration of the track. No graceful way out.
N - Jay wrote:That's funny cause some minimal/techno wtf you call it classics have been written by Ricardo and Luciano. Their strength is repetition with subtle changes. I can listen to those loops for long time. What do you think of that? And not every part is distinct in their tracks. I think it has a hypnotic vibe for me as a clubber/dj.
What do I think of it? Pretty much all techno is a loop with a variation on a theme. There is no denying that. I can't really say that I care very much for Ricardo's music. You must have some kind of aural fortitude that I lack because any more than a few minutes of listening to a loop is enough to drive me up the wall... maybe I would like it more if I was on drugs but if I have to be on drugs to appreciate something then there is probably something better I could be doing... or listening to. Luciano has some much more interesting tracks though. I secretly suspect that Ricardo makes his tracks long because it affords the dj more time for high fives and love ins with backstage sycophants. Thats the impression I get anyhow.
NoAffiliation
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:38 am

Post by NoAffiliation »

"2. track length
Tracks don't have to be 8 minutes long. In fact, the longer the track is the more likely it is to require a lot of repetitive loops filling the time up."

i think that depends entirely on the artist who makes the music. i have no problem listening to long tracks and i prefer musical journeys that build slowly and i feel that extending the length gives the artist more time to rework the elements in a greater number of interesting ways

and it's important to specify what you mean by repetition. repetition of subjective musical motives or you mean it literally where something repeats exactly the same way over and over? if the latter i would have to say i cannot think of any music that does that.

i will listen to subjective musical motives on loop forever but i absolutely will not listen to anything that repeats exactly the sameway for more than one bar
steevio
mnml maxi
mnml maxi
Posts: 3495
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:18 pm
Location: wales UK
Contact:

Re: I have some gripes with the way a lot of techno is produ

Post by steevio »

(*) (*) (*) (*) (*)

just trying out the fancy emoticons.

shepherd of anu's gripes are old ones which have been the problems for a longtime, but they are just generalisations, which you can avoid if you look hard enough.
its the same with most forms of music, the formulas become entrenched, look at blues for instance, every tune has virtually the same chord sequence, the same arrangement, same themes, even the way they finish a tune is cliche'd to the point of tedium. (edit, i should probably add - i love the blues)

but i disagree about tune length, that is totally dependant on the journey of the tune. the only reason dance tunes tended to be 6-7 minutes originally, is so that you can get two of them on one side of vinyl. most vinyl DJs i know would prefer a tune to be as long as possible for leisurely mixing, and i'd say they would generally prefer one track per side.

repetition is what techno is about, but i find loops only become tedious when they've been sampled / cut and pasted etc. and my brain can work out that its actually a cloned loop, as long as you have forward movement and subtle incremental changes, loops can stay locked in for a long time.
Robot Criminal
mnml moderator
mnml moderator
Posts: 2561
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:30 pm
Location: Est0n14

Re: I have some gripes with the way a lot of techno is produ

Post by Robot Criminal »

I can listen fizheuer zieheuer for hours :D
Image we are all atomic and subatomic particles and we are all wireless...
Post Reply