Why drum machines?

[tone-def]

it's not that i don't like drum machines, i've got a korg electribe. i think the sequencer is good if you want to make loops but for whole tracks it kind of sucks.

i'm struggling to think of something a 16 step drum machine can do that a computer midi sequencer can't.

[AK]

i have to look twice on here sometimes. Were on an electronic music forum and nobody likes drum machines? Wtf?

Its like walking into a meat market and finding a sh!t load of vegetarians ..

I swear one day I will look on here and everyone will hate synths. Gotta laugh!

why ?

technology is moving on bro, drum machines were originally designed to emulate and 'replace' real drummers.
do we still need that ?

i even question the notion of 'drums' drums are physical instruments, we are making electronic music, why do we have to imitate physical instruments ?

Move onto what though? I don't particularly wish to emulate real drummers. Synthetic drums are more of interest to me but that's not to say I wouldn't use a sampled real world drum though. Yeah, I've no doubt that they were originally designed to emulate real drummers but that spawned a whole new area of music with drums that didn't actually sound like real drummers or real drums ( well some did )

Technology isn't moving on though is it? In what way? There are still synths and there are still drum machines being created and I'm all for that as well. I'm also all for creating my own percussion and drums but it's not that great a result if the synth doesn't have the envelopes or isn't particularly dedicated to creating that sort of sound.

I like dedicated things in their own packages. Drum machines are perfect, they're designed to do one thing and if they're any good, they do it well. Plus they are mobil;e, I can chill out in bed or wherever and plug some headphones in and create rhythms. Not just that though, I get a buzz out of some of the older type sounds too, things that were found on older type drum machines. Nostalgia maybe, but it is what it is.

So what are you using for your drums if you arent using samples and you arent using drumm machines? Your modular? Surely there's only so many sounds you can make with such a thing unless you have miles of devices and patch cords?

[AK]

it's not that i don't like drum machines, i've got a korg electribe. i think the sequencer is good if you want to make loops but for whole tracks it kind of sucks.

i'm struggling to think of something a 16 step drum machine can do that a computer midi sequencer can't.

probably nothing. But then you have to like the whole computer thing to be able to cope with that way of working. Don't you get bogged down with piano rolls and grid resolutions and option paralysis?

You are still working in patterns itb though are you not? You don't always have to use 1/16th programming either. Most go up to 32nd notes and then if you double tempo you can get finer increments, 64ths, 128ths depending on the machine. If you mean pattern chaining and stuff, then yeah, I know some of the machines cant make the move from one pattern to the next in a smooth transition but usually you get a 'song mode' and you can record any parameter changes in that mode ( that's the way I always did it in the box too )

[steevio]

So what are you using for your drums if you arent using samples and you arent using drumm machines? Your modular? Surely there's only so many sounds you can make with such a thing unless you have miles of devices and patch cords?

ive always synthesized my own percussive sounds, apart from a few sounds off the 909, like the snare which is particularly nice, and of course the kick,

before i went modular i used the Nord lead and Nord 3, they were perfect for percussive sounds because of the morphing functions, especially velocity morphing.
i dont think of percussive sounds as different from any of the other sounds i want to make, in synthesis terms a percussive sound is just some wave(s) with a short attack and decay envelope on it, i like to be able to turn a pad sound / melodic line or whatever into a percussive sound just by closing down an envelope, its nice to be able to morph your sounds around like that, rather than them being static.

the modular has made all that even more interesting. i make all my percussive sounds with the modular, fMing, ring modulating oscillators in all sorts of different ways, theres an almost infinite number of ways to make percussion with a modular. its far from limited.

[lem]

my 909 definitely has a 'feel' to it, and i loved that for a long time, now i find it just too limiting. the stock shuffles are all nice, but there are huge gaps in between them, i need my shuffles to be adjustable to the finest degree, i need asymmetric shufffles, i need polyrhyhthms, i need totally control and infinite flexibilty.

I think that the limitations are one of the key things about drum machines.
When working ITB there are too many options to go through b4 you even begin to write the melodic parts like bass, leads.

Couldnt you get better control of shuffle by using the modular as your master clock?

[steevio]

my 909 definitely has a 'feel' to it, and i loved that for a long time, now i find it just too limiting. the stock shuffles are all nice, but there are huge gaps in between them, i need my shuffles to be adjustable to the finest degree, i need asymmetric shufffles, i need polyrhyhthms, i need totally control and infinite flexibilty.

I think that the limitations are one of the key things about drum machines.
When working ITB there are too many options to go through b4 you even begin to write the melodic parts like bass, leads.

Couldnt you get better control of shuffle by using the modular as your master clock?

yes thats exactly what i do.

[KryoShift]

I use my Octatrack as a drum machine a lot, but it's sequencer isn't exactly a standard 16-stepper, either Once Elektron adds the MIDI sequencer function it's on.

I definitely like "dedicated" instruments but I do use my Proteus and FB-01 a lot for percussion, too.

As nice as working completely ITB is, I find a certain piece sitting there with a machine in my hands and making noises.

[thefunnel]

I have an MFB-522. Sort of a cheapo 808 clone in a tiny package. I always programmed my drums using samples or synths in software, but I also wanted some limitations, and the slight alteration of the sound that you get from analog...dedicated parameter controls were also nice, along with having an internal sequencer I could use for fun. All around, an awesome package for less than $400.

I still use samples in Ableton, of course...but I also get a lot of sounds from my MFB-522, and have a lot of fun just jamming out rhythms and tweaking the knobs real-time, allowing for some nice subtle changes and accents to keep the vibe from being so static.

Despite the ease of programming digital drums in software, it's a fucking bitch frankly to get them to sound fresh over a long period of time. Unless there's been a lot of work done on the drum loops, I can usually point out some stale digital work in a track. I think there's something to be said for the ever so slight changes to the waveform you get with analog sound generation, especially once you mix in a little real-time modulation of decay/filter/attack, etc.

I do most of my MFB's sequencing through ableton, however. It's fun to jam with its internal sequencer, but nigh impossible to get the exact tempo you want since it relies on a knob for that.

Do I want an actual 808/909 or other vintage gear? Eh, sometimes, but not for the price they demand. I've played with them...fun machines for sure, and classic sounds. Really beautiful stuff...but I also like staying fresh and a little unique by not hopping on the standard techno gear train. Not to say a good 909 or 808 perc set isn't essential for some tracks, but I can't justify spending that kind of money for what amounts to very well-versed territory.

I'd really like to snag a Vermona DRM1 MKIII though. Been eyeballing those for a couple years, just haven't really had the extra cash to spend on another drum machine. Some hate on it for its lack of sequencer, but I don't really use the MFB's as it is...I just want the analog sound generation and dedicated knobs for parameter alterations. The sequencing is much better served with software, IMO. I can make any groove I want, and if I want "randomness" I can do that too with little effort. The groove/pattern part is easy, its the sound that can't be replicated by digital.