I thing which I discovered some time ago is the volume envelope. I look at it a bit like BLM, the sounds (and their volume envelope) is very important. often the note start is not the perceived hit point. the same with the decay. the wrong decay length (too short or too long) can kill a groove sometimes.
I'm not at the point very I think I have mastered it and I'm not sure if I ever will, bit this is a point which is important at the moment for me.
Swing/groove and making tracks less rigid
sometimes definitely yes. I think my stuff sound wrong all the time when I'm working on it. but after some time, when I have forgotten about the production, I often think it sounds good and I actually discover a good groove sometimes. I ask myself : how did you made this high hat or something like that.pafufta816 wrote:Dusk wrote:2) Force yourself to accept what sounds initially "wrong", until it sounds "right". That goes not just for timing but for most elements of programming and arrangement.
I don't agree. A real perfect swinging house track is not easier to make than a hyper complex broken beat stuff. Every sound has to be right for this. I think people fool them self when they think that simple means easy. the complexity from a perfect swinging groove is at a lower level (micro timing etc.). another thing is that we humans often find structures in apparently complex structures. it's harder to do when you don't have many elements.pafufta816 wrote: this is partly why i find so much house music boring, the beats lack much syncopation or shuffle. any fool can make a 4/4 disco beat.
Last edited by regler on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bennytwohats
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I have a problem with this but Im not 100% sure where you guys are coming from so I'll say just this: For me, if something sounds 'wrong', I go with my first impression and no matter how many times I will listen to it, it will sound wrong. But Im not sure how the term 'wrong' is used in this context?pafufta816 wrote:i agree, sometimes a drum track, when played solo, sounds off, but when you play it with the other tracks it all comes together. flying lotus is a good, and sort of extreme, example. isolated his hihats would sound offtime and fluttering, but when you add the rest of the drum sounds on top it comes together like a nice elvin jones rythmn.Dusk wrote:2) Force yourself to accept what sounds initially "wrong", until it sounds "right". That goes not just for timing but for most elements of programming and arrangement. If more people did this, we'd all end up with more interesting music to listen to.
this is partly why i find so much house music boring, the beats lack much syncopation or shuffle. any fool can make a 4/4 disco beat.
If you mean that you initially think something might suck, then no matter how much you listen, the fact that it sucked when you first heard it is because it probably did suck.
Anyway, all music is subjective and people have different tastes. The world would be very boring if we all agreed to a 'universal musical perfection' or an idea of whats good and bad.
Like the talk of independant timing discrepencies across a drum track, ie: loose timing, I myself dont like that, I prefer things tighter and locked in to a whole groove but thats just me and what I like. I disagree that House or similar stuff doesnt have interesting beats but then I dont really listen to it for the drums like I might with a breakbeat track or a DnB track and plus, the grooves dont end with the drums, the interaction of things like the bass and every other element makes it happen for me.
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pafufta816
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i have lived with heavily syncopated and polyrhymthic beats for over a decade now, my command of patterns in that regard is saturated in awareness. when i say "wrong", some synonyms might be off-time, off-beat, random, etc. it is not a judgement but a feeling, and in that regard the language does not translate well.
It translates perfectly if you'd have just said, loose timing although I dont see the connection between loose timing and polyrhythms. Different rhythms with different time sigs running together are still polyrhythmic whether they are quantized or not. I dont know what it is with me and loose timing, I always find that I get a feeling of sloppiness and feel uncomfortable with it. But hey, that's where we all differ I guess.