Swing/groove and making tracks less rigid

[steevio]

In 4/4 Im really comfortable, I can tap along, dance, nod my head and whatever, throw an odd time sig in there and I lose it completely. All rhythm is gone and if I try and feel it in my body, I probably look like someone with 2 left feet having an epileptic fit.

i really cant beleive you cant dance to latin american music, funk, tribal rhythms, its the most danceable sh!t out there bro.

thats all based around polyrhythms, i'm sure you're just not getting your head round how its fits into dance music, if you're thinking about waltz you're not really getting it.

[Dusk]

As far as I can see, most 4/4 grooves derive their groove and energy from some form of polyrhythm, however simple. Take the classic 3/16ths delay pattern syncopating with a 4/4 kick, for example.

[s.k.]

people often confuse polyrithm with odd-time signatures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufmHAjttOPk&feature=fvw <--------this is 7/8. not a polyrithm, just an odd time signature.

[steevio]

polyrhythm is simple, its just two independant rhythms playing at the same time, so if you have a rhythm in 7/8 and one in 4/4 playing together you have a polyrhythm.

the problem most people have with polyrhythms is that they try to frame them in one of the time signatures, so with the above example you might have a snare on the 2 and 4 in the 4/4 and this doesnt resolve with 7/8.

its why i've never used a snare/clap on the 2/4, it locks you into that time signature. it's why you dont hear so much polyrhythm used in house, yet its all over most other forms of EDM. the polyrhythms in house are usually limited to fills and syncopations, or they are truncated, in other words they are limited to one or two bars, then loop.

for successful polyrhythms you have to work on both rhythms equally till they flow. its the basis for most truly hypnotic music.

[AK]

people often confuse polyrithm with odd-time signatures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufmHAjttOPk&feature=fvw <--------this is 7/8. not a polyrithm, just an odd time signature.

Well actually, if we really want to get into academics, nobody here is correct about polyrhythm. (i cant view that clip on my phone btw) What steevio is saying about 7/8 against 4/4 is not a polyrhythm, it's polymetric.

The latter part of what I was on about was in reference to the meter or time sig. In which case, I was saying if I read the sig as being, 7/8, Id have problems feeling that rhythm for anything that is dance music. That's not to say I dont use polyrhythms, we all do but the use of the term is the confusion here.

Like I was saying though, I dont really use polymetric stuff, which is actually what steevio is describing. So in a nutshell:

Polyrhythms: I use them.
Polymetering: I do not.

So what's the difference? Well as far as I am aware, its this (but feel free to argue this)

Polymetering: The use of 2 or more time sigs being played simultaneously at the same bpm. Say I had a chord riff in 3/4 and a bass riff in 4/4, that is not a polyrhythm. Thats polymetric. The effect is that they would first appear to be in 'sync' but then would go out of sync against each other and would realign (in the above case) after the 12th beat.

Polyrhythm: 2 or more different rhythms played against each other in the same amount of space. I think theres some stressing of accents to truly be polyrhythmic but Im not sure on that to be honest. Anyway, the very fact that it has been written in this thread with a slash and not a colon, signifies a time signature and not a polyrhythm.

When referring to metering, we use a /. When talking about polyrhythm, we use a :

So to say a polyrhythm is a 7/8 played against a 4/4 is not actually correct as its polymetering, hence my follow up post which then talked of time signatures. So its worth ensuring we know what each other is actually on about beforehand. Ive heard steevios music and know what hes on about when he talks about it even if the terminology might be misunderstood.

So in terms of say 7 notes per beat (septuplets) if we played septuplets against quarter notes in a 4/4 measure, that's a polyrhythm and would be written as a 7:4 polyrhythm. At least thats my grasp on it.

[steevio]

^^^

but polymeter is polyrhythm, if you want to be academic about it.

polyrhythm is simply two or more rhythms played at the same time. its a very loosely defined term, they can be polymetric or not.

if youre questioning my use of / and : and definitions

then i made a 7:8 polyrhythm out of one rhythm in 7/8 and another in 4/4 (or more accurately in my case 8/8 ) polymetrically

[AK]

It's the blurriness around the similarities that causes the 2 things to become synonamous I think. Even wiki doesnt seem to be exact on this point. Certainly though, if a slash is used, my understanding is that it relates to metering. So if a piece of music had say a 7/8 instrument part and another part in 4/4, it refers to time signatures as denoted by the slash and would be defined as polymetering. What you do in your music is an exact example of polymetering by its very own definition. Interweaving parts of different time signatures so that the patterns go in and out of 'sync' over time.

As far as Im aware, the defining factor of polyrhythm, is that they are playing the
same time signature, but are
playing different groupings/
rhythms within that time
signature. Like triplets and quarter notes for example.

[steevio]

the blurriness is due to the fact that youre not seeing polymeter as a subset of polyrhythm, you're assuming they are mutually exclusive.

if you read my posts again you'll notice i never said a 7/8 polyrhythm at any time, i didnt missuse the slash, i was talking about two independant rhythms one in 7/8 the other 4/4.

in my own music i'd say i use polymeter alot but not exlusively.