What are you going on about now? Im not sure you know what you are talking about half the time, maybe read up on things before posting silly posts that dont even make sense. Theres a lot of educated and musically experienced guys on here, it would serve you well to respect that and learn a bit.michaellpenman wrote:yes but you add harmonics, on a fm synth , so when two sine waves are added upper hamnics are added so you can use a LP filter to tighten up you bass sound.AK wrote:Yeah theres no point adding a lp filter to a sine wave. What are you trying to filter out? A sine wave contains the fundamental and thats it, there arent harmonics to filter out by lo passing.
not sure you under stand FM synths
Bass Questions
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kristofason
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How can u expect a novice to understand any of this tho ?!michaellpenman wrote:man what are you talking about, i'm trying to help the guy and you have a go with me, i have been working for year in the music industry trust me i know what im doing.
Please help me help the guy.
Ok so you know fm.
If you add a modulated signal to your carrier regardless if it is a sine wave it add harmonics. Then split the sound in two channels. LP filter one channel and hp filter the other channel this way you can control the sound in the mix.
I'm more that certain that was what was used in the second track.
You say it was PWM wav but this would cause modulation throughiut the track so you can tell it is not, cause it does not modulation
i may be wrong but that is my opionon.
People need to chill i'm trying to help to help they guy not have a argument.
You love to talk about your credentials don't you micheall. Leave your ego at the door please. Nobody cares that you have spent an entire year working in the music industry.
Anyway if you want to learn don't use wikipedia, read a book instead. wikipedia often has wrong information, so cannot be relied on.
Anyway if you want to learn don't use wikipedia, read a book instead. wikipedia often has wrong information, so cannot be relied on.
Anyway, what you were describing with combining 2 sines is actually additive synthesis but that's beside the point, i asked what you were talking about (that was in regard to the sound design techniques you were suggesting) not because i want to argue but because you have altered them in each post and havent actually explored what you mean when asked. Instead you have just got defensive and started telling people they know nothing about this and that.
I couldnt see the logic in some of the techniques you outlined but you wont answer when asked. Like putting 2 sines together (1 an 8ve higher) that in itself does not cause 'upper end harmonics', what you get is the fundamental x itself at double that fundamentals frequency and no more. Again, rendering the use of a lp filter ineffective - at least for the purposes you are describing. Fm is different to additive synthesis.
The other techniques you were describing are things i have done myself (although not in techno, in drum n bass and breakbeat) because those genres are more bass driven, the bass becomes the centrepiece or the hook of the track. Combining up to like 3 synths at times to generate a bassline. You'd have a sine re-enforcing the fundamental, a hp filtered harmonically rich sound source at about 100hz and then lp filtered somewhere around 500 hz to leave another layer upward of that frequency which may contain an open fiter with a chorusing effect or a hp filtered room ambience or whatever. Think reece type bass taken further, that kind of thing. Point is, the stuff you were touching on isnt something thats particularly relevant for the op, there's nothing anywhere near as complicated going on for all but the most bass driven of genres. But theres no point lp filtering a sinewave to make way for another sine an 8ve higher since the initial sine does not contain the frequency range the 2nd sine will occupy. Nor does the 2nd sine introduce 'harmonics' which need to be filtered out to 'tighten up' the bass as you say.
Personally i dont think sine waves are particularly good on there own for bass anyway, im much more for harmonically rich sounds tapered with a 24lp filter to get where i want to be but i guess thats neither here nor there.
I couldnt see the logic in some of the techniques you outlined but you wont answer when asked. Like putting 2 sines together (1 an 8ve higher) that in itself does not cause 'upper end harmonics', what you get is the fundamental x itself at double that fundamentals frequency and no more. Again, rendering the use of a lp filter ineffective - at least for the purposes you are describing. Fm is different to additive synthesis.
The other techniques you were describing are things i have done myself (although not in techno, in drum n bass and breakbeat) because those genres are more bass driven, the bass becomes the centrepiece or the hook of the track. Combining up to like 3 synths at times to generate a bassline. You'd have a sine re-enforcing the fundamental, a hp filtered harmonically rich sound source at about 100hz and then lp filtered somewhere around 500 hz to leave another layer upward of that frequency which may contain an open fiter with a chorusing effect or a hp filtered room ambience or whatever. Think reece type bass taken further, that kind of thing. Point is, the stuff you were touching on isnt something thats particularly relevant for the op, there's nothing anywhere near as complicated going on for all but the most bass driven of genres. But theres no point lp filtering a sinewave to make way for another sine an 8ve higher since the initial sine does not contain the frequency range the 2nd sine will occupy. Nor does the 2nd sine introduce 'harmonics' which need to be filtered out to 'tighten up' the bass as you say.
Personally i dont think sine waves are particularly good on there own for bass anyway, im much more for harmonically rich sounds tapered with a 24lp filter to get where i want to be but i guess thats neither here nor there.
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kristofason
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Christ Lewis
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@michaellpenman, the reason this thread went wrong is because you were careless about what you were saying so that it didnt make any sense to the experienced musicians on this forum, so its highly unlikely a novice is going to understand it.
so you werent really helping the guy at all.
but you also either didn't read my posts properly, or you just dont really understand the concepts you are talking about..
this...
but not only that, just because a pulse wave is modulated, doesnt mean it necessarily changes throughout the track, you are equating PWM, with modulation over a long period of time, when infact it can happen in a very short space of time, say if you modulate the pulse width with another oscillator.
i was also trying to help the OP by suggesting the simplest way to get something approximating the bass sounds in the examples, and there is nothing simpler than what i suggested. most of the recognizable bass sounds in techno (TB303, SH101, MiniMoog etc. etc.) are made in the simplest way.
Libertine would be forgiven for being more confused than when he started this thread.
if you are going to give advice please be careful about what you say, and please read other peoples post properly before dismissing their advice.
and please dont take things so personally. when i questioned your advice, it was only because it didnt make sense, and that isnt going to help a novice.
so you werent really helping the guy at all.
but you also either didn't read my posts properly, or you just dont really understand the concepts you are talking about..
this...
i never at any point mentioned PWM, i said i thought it was probably a pulse wave, and a pulse wave is not PWM, (pulse width modulation) two very different things, one is a wave the other a form of modulation.michaellpenman wrote:
You say it was PWM wav but this would cause modulation throughiut the track so you can tell it is not, cause it does not modulation .
but not only that, just because a pulse wave is modulated, doesnt mean it necessarily changes throughout the track, you are equating PWM, with modulation over a long period of time, when infact it can happen in a very short space of time, say if you modulate the pulse width with another oscillator.
i was also trying to help the OP by suggesting the simplest way to get something approximating the bass sounds in the examples, and there is nothing simpler than what i suggested. most of the recognizable bass sounds in techno (TB303, SH101, MiniMoog etc. etc.) are made in the simplest way.
Libertine would be forgiven for being more confused than when he started this thread.
if you are going to give advice please be careful about what you say, and please read other peoples post properly before dismissing their advice.
and please dont take things so personally. when i questioned your advice, it was only because it didnt make sense, and that isnt going to help a novice.
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kristofason
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