Having difficulties for building drum sequences

[aciduss]

I have spent many hours of my life analyzing loops... just grab a loop you like from either a sample cd or an actual track... then throw it in a sequencer and slice it so you analyze every hit and just check on the sequence.

This way you'll be able to spot weak and strong beats, and what make a loop fluent and groovy. It is a mix of choosing the right samples, timing, shuffle and just "feeling" it.

It will take some time tho... gl hf

[Raddler]

Read through this thread.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... -push.html

[KrisM]

I'm not seeing the logic there at all. Why would somebody wishing to make electronic beats on drum machines/whatever want to spend 6 months on a pair of congas?

If that's the case, why not spend 6 months on a real drum kit?

Not for me at all, I've never heard of 6 month long conga playing sessions as an ideal entry into programming electronic drum sequences.

Rhythm, "feel", and they can make an awful lot of different tones.

[PBLondon]

Hi there,

I think you've been getting some good advice on here. Reading up on drum patterns/sequences and analysing your favourite tracks drum patterns is a good first step. I do feel however that after a while you are going to hit that glass ceiling where you feel you have drained those resources to the point that they do not benefit you any more.

I think the best way to learn is hands on guidance from an experienced professional with music industry experience. Not only will you solve your problem, you might even elborate on what you've learnt to create something original and out of the box.
Have you ever thought about doing a music production course of some kind?
From personal experience it gives you a much needed foundation for you to grow creatively.

Courses run by Point Blank are taught but Industry Professionals who have produced and worked for respected companies such as Defected and Cr2 Records.

Our online courses places your productions at the centre of learning with our Direct Video Response (DVR) system. This means you get your productions analysed by our industry professional tutors with them recording any edits, advice and feedback on video for you to watch and learn.

A high percentage of our students go on to have success in their chosen fields ranging from A&R and Remixing to DJs. Have a look at some of our previous students: http://www.pointblanklondon.com/about_p ... udents.php

Have a look at our website: www.pointblankonline.net. I would like to hear what you think of our courses.

I'm just showing you another alternative to those that have been suggested in improving your drum patterns and your productions in general. I'm sure once you have a look at our website you will realise how beneficial our services can be.

Anyway i wish you all the best in your music production!!

[Casanova808]

I'm not seeing the logic there at all. Why would somebody wishing to make electronic beats on drum machines/whatever want to spend 6 months on a pair of congas?

If you have to ask...

If that's the case, why not spend 6 months on a real drum kit?

Trap playing requires disciplining an additional two limbs and it takes longer for a beginner to get passable results while learning the same underlying principles.

Also, used congas are considerably cheaper to buy second hand, they are quieter than a kit, and do not require a dedicated space.

Not for me at all, I've never heard of 6 month long conga playing sessions as an ideal entry into programming electronic drum sequences.

The reason electronic music is so disposable is because a very larger section of the people who make it these days believe that there is a divide between "real" music and electronic music.

You will NEVER make good electronic music until you understand and master the underlying principles of "real" music. Learning to use the muscles in your hands and arms is the best way to internalize those principles.

There is head knowledge and there is body knowledge. You will never fully understand music until head knowledge becomes body knowledge. Congas are a cheap and easy way to translate the intellectual concepts of time signatures, bar lines, rhythm patterns, polyrhythm, shuffle and groove into body knowledge.

[alimessom]

Hey, I was struggling too make decent beats until I discovered my real problem was that I was listening to the same loops far to often, for long preiods, my ears got tired and my brain got bored.

So what I did was spent a day sampling and synthesising kicks, then a day for snare hits and a day for hihat hits.

I use ableton so what I did was made an instument rack for kicks and dropped all the samples in there as different chains and mapped the chain selector to a knob on my midi contoller, I then did this for snares and hihats too this enabled me to play a standard 4 to the floor style beat, but rapidly change between different kicks, snares and hihats, by just turning 3 midi knobs.
This expanded further and i started to create nice percussion drum kits of all my sampled and synthesized hits. From Crazy stuff to really simple clicks.
So whenever I want I can open this template set of kicks snares and hihats, play one midi clip and turn knobs until I find a combination i like. Then start jamming with the different percussion kits I've produced.
When I come up with something I like I'll extract all the parts into a new set and start to turn this into a track, modulating parameters and generally developing the sound. Be careful not to overdevelop the sound.
Just keep things simple and design ways of working fast and efficiantly, otherwise you'll get bored, like you get bored of listening to the same song on repeat for 10 hours.
Also this isnt a routine!! I by no means make myself stick to working in this way, things develop and I come up with new ways of working. I create more hit samples and my drum kits get bigger, I find things that annoy me and I get rid of them.
This is how I work, I might be right I might be wrong but it seems to do the trick for me.
Cheers.

[AK]

If you have to ask...

I have to ask because of its absurdity in this particular application. It's no more useful than tapping a table top, hell, why not even use a controller keyboard which he probably already has. But then I'm kind of defending your point here and I do not wish to do so.

The reason electronic music is so disposable is because a very larger section of the people who make it these days believe that there is a divide between "real" music and electronic music.

What music are you listening to???? That's a crazy and outlandish statement to make, you simply cannot throw a blanket over electronic music like that in a matter of fact way. There's good and bad in all aspects of music. Never heard a shitty rock band down a local pub? Sorry but that is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the 'divide' thing. Music is music mate, learning the instruments at your disposal is the number one priority regardless of whether that's 'real' or electronic.

You will NEVER make good electronic music until you understand and master the underlying principles of "real" music. Learning to use the muscles in your hands and arms is the best way to internalize those principles.

And........The best way to internalize those principles is to go out a get some congas right?

There is head knowledge and there is body knowledge. You will never fully understand music until head knowledge becomes body knowledge. Congas are a cheap and easy way to translate the intellectual concepts of time signatures, bar lines, rhythm patterns, polyrhythm, shuffle and groove into body knowledge

So is their controller keyboard - which again, they probably already have. Really what you are saying in essence, is that in order to make sophisticated electronic music, you first need to be able to play a ( probably ) non-electronic instrument? At least that's the gist of the message that's coming across. Again, I disagee. It's no more complex than simple practice and willingness to learn.

I can understand your points but don't really see how they can be appliable in a move from congas to say a drum machine, I don't think anyone would argue against learning those principles as a means to produce better rhythms and indeed music in general but they are not things that need to be taught outside of the equipment of most bedroom studios.

All things aside, my point is simply to pursue the learning aspects of music full stop and continue to explore new rhythms, time sigs and so on.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[steevio]

There is head knowledge and there is body knowledge. You will never fully understand music until head knowledge becomes body knowledge. Congas are a cheap and easy way to translate the intellectual concepts of time signatures, bar lines, rhythm patterns, polyrhythm, shuffle and groove into body knowledge.

i think its the other way round, you will never fully understand music until body knowledge becomes head knowledge.

the best way to get the body knowledge is to dance,
and the cheapest and easiest way to utilise that is to make electronic music. thats been the roots of electronic dance music right from the start.

i'm not saying dont learn a percussive instrument, it can only help you, but its not a prerequisite to making electronic music.
more import i think is understanding your equipment and getting deep into programming. one of the main reasons there is alot of poor quality electronic music out there, is that its not difficult to get passable results with very little knowledge of the kit/software, unfortunately thats usually all it is, passable.

time and patience is the missing ingredient.

you can't get passable results on a 'real' instrument without a lot of practice.