How to create that perfect crispy kick drum sound?

[wob]

I know this have been asked a million times on this forum. But I can't seem to find any tips that can help me achieve the kick drum sound I'm looking for.

It's in no way special, I know that. I hear it everywhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKl-mQYOFAw

I've been trying to recreate it microtonic and operator etc.
But I can't seem to achieve that crisp thud in the beginning of the kick. When I try to create a kick drum it's either a straight kick without bass or a kick without crisp kick and deep bass. I can't combine the two.

Also, I hear alot of people praising microtonic for being so great. Been messing around with it for some days now. But I always end up with almost the same exact kick drum sound. Can't get any good variations.

This is what I've come up with so far:
http://soundcloud.com/neanderthal/kick-drum

And this is my microtonic settings:
http://pici.se/pictures/NLrHUSsFj.png

Should I use noise to try and get more variation? So far when I've used noise it'll only turn out like crap

[damagedgoods]

For a kick like that I'd probably layer a simple pitch modulated sine kick with the attack of a sample, maybe high passed. The synth gives you the control, the sample gives you the attack.

But don't underestimate the effect of sequencing cymbals or percussion in such a way that there's always something playing on the beat - the sound you're looking for could just be what you get when you play a deeper kick and a tight closed hihat at the same time.

[wob]

Thanks for your input, will try adding some additional elements and see what happens

Do you hear that clicky sound? How do I get rid of it?

[damagedgoods]

Try a slightly longer attack on the amplitude envelope maybe? You'll lose a bit of attack but also the click. It's pretty subtle though, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The attack of the kick on the youtube clip you posted sounds almost as if it precedes the main kick by a millisecond or two. Maybe try that with another sample on top - I'd imagine the slight flamming will give it a bit more crunch.

This kind of kick is all over the sample packs (Vengeance etc). I know a lot of people on here have an issue with sampling sounds, but if I were looking for this sound in particular I'd probably just high pass the attack of a particularly crunchy kick sample and stick it on top of whatever I'd synthesised. Or just sample the lot, if i found a sample that worked. (It's only a kick drum; I can't see the point in being a purist over it!)

[lcvl]

synthesis + sample layering is the key, IMO.
check my sig for that old free kick drums sample pack. More than 50 kicks in there.

[wob]

Right, get ready for noob questions..

The problem is, that I don't know what layering samples or whatever actually means. How do I do it in Ableton Live for instance?

The only thing I can think of is putting samples in operator and playing samples simultaneously. Am I close?

How do I do that with sounds from microtonic/operator..?

[damagedgoods]

Right, get ready for noob questions..

The problem is, that I don't know what layering samples or whatever actually means. How do I do it in Ableton Live for instance?

The only thing I can think of is putting samples in operator and playing samples simultaneously. Am I close?

How do I do that with sounds from microtonic/operator..?

Ask away.

Layering = playing more than one sound at once.

Make an Instrument Rack and have Operator or Microtonic in one chain and Sampler in another. Put a Simple Delay (set to milliseconds) on the Operator chain, 100% wet, no feedback, if you want to try offsetting the samples.

You can't load samples into operator.

[wob]

Oh, I had totally forgotten about instrument racks.

Thank you for your help, gonna do some experimenting now.
Probably gonna be back with more questions soon, haha, thanks again