Producers losing hope in a crowded, insular scene

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:25 pm

i'm probably guilty of not taking the time to check out peoples tracks on the forum, i suppose ive always gravitated to the production forum as an outlet for my geekiness, and then i've used up my forum time.

i suppose also i dont post tunes up here myself so i dont tend to go there.

so sorry guys, i will have to change my ways.

my previous ramble was kind of sparked by a general reaction i have to pessimism and maybe not getting Dusk's point.
i think i'm just really optimistic at the moment, that hasnt always been the case.

Dusk · Post by **Dusk** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:55 pm

Good responses one and all.

steevio, no need to feel bad about not visiting the demo area or feeding back to people - everyone is busy, time is precious, and Im sure we'd all prefer producers like yourself to be in the studio. That's where you're best, after all...

And as I said, we are all saturated with this music, which is probably the root cause of all of this - the ruthless, focussed mindset that can seem like insular-ness. But just like pheek said, it's actually a natural response and probably pretty adaptive, like oblio said. Therefore it's stupid for anyone to blame, or feel agrieved with other people who don't invest their own time in unknown music.

I'm sure that once a bit of buzz exists people will know a track is worth their time, then dive in. That seems to be the way. And of course it's up to the artist, I guess, to create that through promotional stuff, sheer effort and consistency, and of course - helping others!

Atheory · Post by **Atheory** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:56 pm

its really hard to get round to listening to everything that everybody does though, so its understandable when they don't.

one thing i'm trying to do more of is actually LISTENING to peoples music, and not just making snap shop judgements on 20-30secs of music based on minor aesthetic things, which we are all probably guilty of. Like trying to see where the producer is going with the idea, moods etc. Trying to understand the song, or have an appreciation for it beyond liking or not liking it.

I don't know if its mp3s or the the internet or just the volume of music that has turned my attention span so bad, but i'll sort it out.

oblioblioblio · Post by **oblioblioblio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:14 pm

Dusk wrote: I'm sure that once a bit of buzz exists people will know a track is worth their time, then dive in. That seems to be the way. And of course it's up to the artist, I guess, to create that through promotional stuff, sheer effort and consistency, and of course - helping others!

I've been thinking about this stuff for quite a while now.

Music (and other art forms) are a very strange commodity in life.

Everyone listens to stuff differently and for different reasons. I have a close friend (I feel bad about this little experiment, and also reporting it here, but anways). A while ago we were on a dancefloor and someone was playing a distinctive track (DJ Koze remix of Reinhard Voigt, rrah), the dancefloor was intense, everyone was happy... my mate was absolutely loving the track. Anyways, a few weeks later I played him the track in my bedroom and asked his opinion... 'nah I'm not feeling this mate'.

Some people are quite independent and do their own thing with listening habits, whereas others it's quite a social thing, to listen to music, it's more about the connection with other people than the music itself.

Maybe these theories are not great to be thinking about, cos often life is stranger and mysterious and surprising. Either way I know that it can be really tough finding your way to listeners, as a musician just working in the moment and not trying to impress anyone or fit into predefined brackets for $$$.

Being with likeminded people is a great thing in this area, maybe thru social contacts, or also why I think the idea of a record label is an important one.

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:17 pm

Atheory wrote:its really hard to get round to listening to everything that everybody does though, so its understandable when they don't.

one thing i'm trying to do more of is actually LISTENING to peoples music, and not just making snap shop judgements on 20-30secs of music based on minor aesthetic things, which we are all probably guilty of. Like trying to see where the producer is going with the idea, moods etc. Trying to understand the song, or have an appreciation for it beyond liking or not liking it.

I don't know if its mp3s or the the internet or just the volume of music that has turned my attention span so bad, but i'll sort it out.

i'm guilty of the snap judgements thing as well.
its weird, in the mid ninetees i was involved with a shop called Kinetec in London, they had a small empire of labels, recording studios etc. based around the acid techno scene, and i used to take in my new tunes which i'd slaved over for weeks and was really excited about to play to the head honcho to see if they were releasable on any of the labels, and quite often he would listen to about 30 seconds of a track and go 'no, not interested, and i'd be really put out thinking he hadnt given it a chance and 'hadnt even got to the good bit yet'.
he used to say that he knew after 30 seconds whether it was his thing or not, and i couldnt except it.
now i agree with him i'm afraid. you just know straight away, you either feel it or you dont.

Brankis · Post by **Brankis** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:58 pm

i agree with alot of what people are saying here but all the answers seem to be revolving around looking to other people for validation...

i assume everyone saw the slices dvd with hawtin, even he said that they used to shop tracks to all the detroit labels at the time and never hear back.. The point is that if you believe in what you are doing the last thing you should do is wait for others to make things happen for you. It's easier now than ever for an artist to successfully market themselves and create their own business...

no one is going to be successful by waiting around for feedback on some techno message board. control your own destiny, i guarantee that 99% of the key players in this scene did exactly that

Atheory · Post by **Atheory** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:07 pm

^^^^
i'm understand, but i'm afraid of missing out on the records that need a few listens or the whole track to make sense. there is whole genres out there that i've written off during my life time based on those 30s secs/one song or the fact that i didn't like the aesthetic. no more!

oblioblioblio · Post by **oblioblioblio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:20 pm

steevio wrote:
i'm guilty of the snap judgements thing as well.
its weird, in the mid ninetees i was involved with a shop called Kinetec in London, they had a small empire of labels, recording studios etc. based around the acid techno scene, and i used to take in my new tunes which i'd slaved over for weeks and was really excited about to play to the head honcho to see if they were releasable on any of the labels, and quite often he would listen to about 30 seconds of a track and go 'no, not interested, and i'd be really put out thinking he hadnt given it a chance and 'hadnt even got to the good bit yet'.
he used to say that he knew after 30 seconds whether it was his thing or not, and i couldnt except it.
now i agree with him i'm afraid. you just know straight away, you either feel it or you dont.

maybe it's a personal thing. i dunno.

with lots of music I make a snap judgement and then listen to the same record in a different mindset and I feel very differently.

i dunno though, maybe it's true. or maybe it's just different with different people listening and different types of music.

Like house, and other very groove based music you can probably tell a bit more easily, cos with that style tracks generally bare themselves from the start, and have a lot of consistancy across different sections. But at the same time I doubt there are many people who can judge a symphony from just one section. But maybe that style is a bit too far away from most electrnic music to be comparable.

For me it can take a while before I know how I feel. Sometimes it's straight away and when I listen again I feel similarly. BUt sometimes my feelings can flip around quite a lot.

One of my favourite records ever I hated for the first 4 or 5 listens but one day it all started to make sense to me, though that was when I was a bit younger.