How to create space in a mix

SHAP · Post by **SHAP** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:49 pm

Some great stuff here i didnt know about. thank you.

WYRL · Post by **WYRL** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:15 am

This is the stuff hey? I think if you can get you're kick and sub in tune they form that space on there own...If you're favorite music music is doing that thing with just 2 elements the artist has been digging for a bit of fire. intellijel Was asking the same thing a little while ago http://www.mnml.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47620 as always what you think is happening probably is. Ditch your routine try out all the suggestions and push you're cpu. I like plugins like Quad Frohmage or to make individual elements wide

livecollective · Post by **livecollective** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:25 am

WYRL wrote: I like plugins like Quad Frohmage or to make individual elements wide

The way I understand it using something like Quad Frohmage for widening is more of a filter distortion/saturation sort of perceived wideness.

Fatiguing to the ears.

WYRL · Post by **WYRL** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:57 am

It's good to use sparingly. Not so much for distorting but for filtering middle and sides differently. But as Roqqert said for example cutting on the left and then mirroring that with a boost in the same freqs on the right can be a cool way to pan. You can do the same with two eq's.
Doubling or micro delaying a channel on one side as livcollective explained also sounds so cool. combining all the tricks everyone has already shared + using very short, short and a long reverb all the time while you're making your music should get you closer to finding that space. Try these impulses! http://www.rhythminmind.net/presetblog/2009/06/667/
I think if stuff still isn't working out spacial wise, a bit of chicken blood and voodoo is the only other way. Really good advice here!Nice thread.

oblioblioblio · Post by **oblioblioblio** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:17 am

I think all these physical tricks are all good advice and useful and nice to use.

I do think there is something that you can't explain or understand in how a track can work though. Not just in creating the physical impression of a room from reverb/widening/equing etc, but from a more, err, mysterious level. It's really hard to describe, but somehow from certain kinds of rhythm, choices of sound, melody you can maybe create a different kind of room.

I find it really hard to talk about, cos maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree, and also cos partly it's one of those things that the more you talk about it the harder it is to believe.

pheek · Post by **pheek** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:53 pm

Opuswerk wrote:Thanks for all the replies !!

I'm currently trying a few of the tips here, but it's damn hard. I mostly achieve placing the elements of the mix at their right place, however it seems more as if they're in a room rather than creating that room. Will keep at it either way

The more i search for it, the more it seems that sounds need somehow to be pissing all over the place without eating the others headroom, so as to feel the more natural as possible. Hard equing doesn't seem to help as it sterilizes the sounds more than help them "expand", if that makes sense.

Might also try and use another reverb than live built-in, as its a bit too digital I feel.

It's going to be really hard to compete with the pop artists who have access to equipment that is worth millions, as well as up to date fx, analog mastering gear, engineers mixer that have 20-30 years of experience... I have a lot of respect for people like Britney's assistants for the sonic world they build.

During Mutek, Pole was giving a workshop about mastering and said a few things that is meant to be share:
1- make sure frequencies are not overlapped
2- less sound for more impact
3- EQing is magic.

intellijel · Post by **intellijel** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:29 pm

Some of the delay based tricks sound really cool but I don't trust them...at least not in my mixing room which is extremely acoustically imperfect. This means that by using delay I may be adding crazy phase problems. The top studios/producers all have great mixing rooms (in addition to amazing gear).

The more carefully I listen to artists who sound 3D, the more I realise that they use way more panning than is apparent at first listen. This can be done with hard pans, automated panning (especially of thin high pitched stuff to really widen the field) and using complimenting sounds in pairs (e.g. for a clap sound take two simmilar claps and pan one hard left and one hard right) It is also the careful choice of sounds they use and using stuff from the full spectrum of audio frequencies to create contrasts, define boundaries and fill spaces when/where needed.

Myfirstcasio · Post by **Myfirstcasio** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:45 pm

Some great advice here! Gonna try that 3 point delay trick for sure!

I always find that the best tracks for setting a "place" or "room" are really good dark Psy-trance tracks. I'm sure some black magic happens at some point!