Song construction... ?

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

all these rules about song construction make me want to head-butt my fridge.

I would like to see this Maybe you could videotape this act for youtube while interspersing it with rants about musical structure and techno's failure to move forward into the unknown.

If anything DJ's are probably a big stumbling block in moving the music into new ground. Generally speaking, the music is made to be mixed because DJ's are very concerned with their mixing. If some guy considers himself to be a techno DJ probably isn't going to buy and play too many tracks that don't fit the mold.

I am of two minds on this thread. I don't think any approach is right or wrong. If you are dead set on whipping out a track in short order then focus on the basic structure and fill in the gaps from there.

Personally, I believe that there is great value to noodling around all day aimlessly. There is a lot to be gained from noodling. It can change your perspective and give you more insight into what it is you are doing. I would encourage noodleing around until you hit on something that you are really feeling deep and then bring that out and work with it.

Also, don't just sit down and say, "I am going to make minimal techno." You might end up neglecting something special that you should be nurturing.

Just noodle about until you hit on something then explore it. When you find something that will become a good piece of minimal techno you will know. If you sit down and say, "I am going to make minimal techno"... well you might but its probably going to sound pretty much like everything else out there.

Think about great jazz musicians. People who made really ground breaking music... played their instruments, sang or composed differently. Think of guys like Miles Davis or Louie Armstrong. I bet these guys spent a lot of time noodling about with their realm of music.

[tone-def]

all these rules about song construction make me want to head-butt my fridge.

the reason why this music is struggling to move forward, is precisely because of these rules.

The reason that this music is struggling to move forward is because most new producers are told by insecure forum idiots that they should discard the rules and should be original, rather than work on their basics and develop a proper library of technique like in any other artistic discipline.

Look at any artist, in any genre, even painting, writing, etc.. they all start simple, studying the works of masters, and copying the elements that made these works great. Originality will of course come out by itself, no two paintings are exactly alike even if you are painting by numbers. A rock band gets together and do covers for one main reason: it helps the band tune in to each other, and work together. Without a specific song to cover, they'll just noodle around aimlessly all day. With all song-writing tasks removed from the equation, the band can focus on how their instrument plays with the others, pushing and pulling and fitting into the overall sound. This is the same for elements within electronic music, of course. By sticking to a very simple formula, you can focus on specific creative aspects that otherwise get lost in all the 'originality' of you just noodling aimlessly around, hoping to hit on something good..

Electronic music is being held back by this CONSTANTLY REPEATED idea that you can screw the rules, and that you should be original. Ask yourself 'Why?' for fucks sake. I don't see so many people saying you should be both good, and original. You can throw whatever sht you like together and call it original, and then get on a forum and feel secure about what you did by telling everyone that they too should be original. But this will never make you any good.

Being good requires study, practice, discipline, learning, copying, understanding, hard work and long hours. Some talent is an optional extra.

I disagree

look at commercial trance, that follows the rules and it's probably the most boring predictable form of dance music out there. they all use the same song structure, same synth sounds, same vengeance sample CD no originality at all. Technology is the only thing that changes the sound of trance but all that's doing is making it more digital and cold. Do you really think we should follow this example?

[Yatmandu]

I wonder how all of this music would've turned out if many years ago someone told people like Richard D James: "You can't do that! You're breaking the RULES!"

Rules are meant to be taken and stuffed somewhere. Be original!

[steevio]

Just noodle about until you hit on something then explore it. When you find something that will become a good piece of minimal techno you will know. If you sit down and say, "I am going to make minimal techno"... well you might but its probably going to sound pretty much like everything else out there.

Think about great jazz musicians. People who made really ground breaking music... played their instruments, sang or composed differently. Think of guys like Miles Davis or Louie Armstrong. I bet these guys spent a lot of time noodling about with their realm of music.

yay ! we need more noodling !!

and less fridge abuse

[steevio]

Electronic music is being held back by this CONSTANTLY REPEATED idea that you can screw the rules, and that you should be original. Ask yourself 'Why?' for fucks sake.

sorry but this really cracks me up

[tettezak]

the reason why this music is struggling to move forward, is precisely because of these rules.

just flow with it, do what comes natural, our music is one of the few musical forms which needs no rules, its the perfect platform for free expression.

What do you mean by moving forward? What exactly do you want it to evolve into then? If you take away every "rule", won't you just eventually end up with a completely different genre?

sorry but this really cracks me up

I think his point was just that original != good, which I think you really can't deny..

[steevio]

the reason why this music is struggling to move forward, is precisely because of these rules.

just flow with it, do what comes natural, our music is one of the few musical forms which needs no rules, its the perfect platform for free expression.

What do you mean by moving forward? What exactly do you want it to evolve into then? If you take away every "rule", won't you just eventually end up with a completely different genre?

what do i mean by moving forward ? what a strange question.
music is constantly evolving, always has, always will.

sorry but this really cracks me up

I think his point was just that original != good, which I think you really can't deny..

i dont get your point, and didnt think that was his point either, am i missing something here ?

[tettezak]

what do i mean by moving forward ? what a strange question.
music is constantly evolving, always has, always will.

Then what's the problem?
It's something that just happens randomly without any reason and/or goals, I don't see how one can speak of "struggling" in this context, it either happens or it doesn't..
And then when it does there's a 1000 posts on how it used to be better

i dont get your point, and didnt think that was his point either, am i missing something here ?

Electronic music is being held back by this CONSTANTLY REPEATED idea that you can screw the rules, and that you should be original. Ask yourself 'Why?' for fucks sake. I don't see so many people saying you should be both good, and original. You can throw whatever sht you like together and call it original, and then get on a forum and feel secure about what you did by telling everyone that they too should be original. But this will never make you any good.

Being original does not automatically make it any good. Unless I'm the one missing MagpieIndustries' point..
Lots of good tracks follow those so called rules.