From Left to Right

[Torque]

we need proportional representation, not first past the winning post.
democracy falls down when 51% of the electorate can decide how the other 49% live. and unfortunately it quite often is that close in western democracies.
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Absofuckinlutely. This is happening in America right now. Obama won our electionwith just over 52 percent of the vote and he is cramming a far left wing plan down our throats. People will argue that congress is democrat heavy but a great deal of those democrats only beat conservatives by a percentage point or two.

Its causing massive division in the American people right now even at a state level. In reaction Liberal states are becoming more liberal and conservative states are becoming more conservative. It causes such a division that right now for example our conservative repressentatives ideas are completely ignored in washington. Its really dividing America in a harmfull way. And if this state division keeps up consewrvative states will outright revolt against liberal leadership and when conservatives run washington again the liberal states will probably revolt against them.

Nothing good will ever get done.

Are you fcking blind to the past?

Conservative tax cut = debt


I hope we split. I have never liked any of the conservative states apart from some natural beauty.

The conservatives operate under the premise we can only be united under their idea of how the government should work.


Quite frankly the more and more I hear conservatives speak (victor) the more and more i realize that there is nothing we have in common that would not be enough to keep me in the same room as one.

I don't see eye to eye with conservatives, I don't have respect for their views, and quite frankly I am through pretending I am an open minded individual sympathetic to their ideas.

I have put up with enough of their religious dogmatic pandering.

Fiscal conservatism and social conservatism are not the same thing. Tax cuts only mean more debt if they aren't following a cut in spending. Any fiscal conservative that is trying to do one but not the other is not a true fiscal conservative. I don't agree with anybody forcing their ideals upon another whether they be conservative or not. I'm guessing that there isn't a single person reading this that doesn't think they can handle their money better than the government can.

Honestly i am shocked that there are so many people in and around techno music that approve of socialism. The scene was so rebellious and had a spirit of resistance against authority at one point yet allot of them seem to gravitate towards the least rebellious political view possible. If it wasn't for the bit of free market we had left this music would never had been allowed to exist and certainly not anything like raves for as long as they did. I thought everybody would be down for a fight against convention of any sort and right now the most conventional form of government i know of at the moment is socialism. I don't think everybody is a moron that doesn't believe what i do but i honestly wonder there the spirit of resistance went.Maybe i'm a nut and a radical but i don't feel like a nut or a radical. I think both political parties are fake and wrong. Am i crazy?

[Atheory]

And what exactly are you basing that theory on it the first place? Last I checked there were not any innocent people losing their rights so far. Just terrorists being held. What evidence do you have that these people that are detained for questioning or whatever are innocent?
be more specific please of what you are talking about and prove it as well with some kind of evidence.

If these people are innocent wouldnt the wonderfull Obama have let them go already? Or maybe he knows things that you dont know being the president and all.

HA HA HA, your out of control, i have to stop getting sucked into this. you should try reading a little about the flaky reasons some people are there. anyway, isn't guilty until proven innocent a little unconstitutional?

obama is releasing people from guantanamo anyway. just last week a man returned to britain after 4 years of torture, without any allegations being proved against him.


also what are your views on civil marriage? oh...and evolution?

[steevio]

[Atheory]

what does everyone say we lobby to get this thread deleted?

i'm sorry i started it, i was depressed in work and was feeling something strongly that i thought would be able to be talked about in an adult manner but the partisan elements hijacked it and soiled everything (dont they always?)
asides from all the right wing lies in this thread, some of the things said about gaza and tonight about guantanamo bay are a complete disgrace, a nasty triumph for lies, propoganda and ignorance.


so please mods, delete it.

for the record i'll never do politics or religion again on the forum, and apologies for my part in this sh!t thread.

[steevio]

[steevio]

what does everyone say we lobby to get this thread deleted?

i vote we delete it

[victorgonzales]

And what exactly are you basing that theory on it the first place? Last I checked there were not any innocent people losing their rights so far. Just terrorists being held. What evidence do you have that these people that are detained for questioning or whatever are innocent?
be more specific please of what you are talking about and prove it as well with some kind of evidence.

If these people are innocent wouldnt the wonderfull Obama have let them go already? Or maybe he knows things that you dont know being the president and all.

HA HA HA, your out of control, i have to stop getting sucked into this. you should try reading a little about the flaky reasons some people are there. anyway, isn't guilty until proven innocent a little unconstitutional?

obama is releasing people from guantanamo anyway. just last week a man returned to britain after 4 years of torture, without any allegations being proved against him.


also what are your views on civil marriage? oh...and evolution?

Well Im sure youd like to share that classified information that you are priveledged to know rather than some newsstory that assumes something right? Just saying ONE person was let go. Many others arent going anywhere.
Also I dont think you really know the conditions in guantanamo. I have a very close friend that works there and has over the last three years. Other than waterboarding which is hardly an extreme form of torture if you can even call it that their conditions are better than than most prisons. Guantanamo has changed drasticaly in the past couple years. I think Ill belief my friend Jameson over a liberal blog writer that "heard somewhere" about the horrible things going on there. If you want it Ill PM his email to you and you can ask him yourself.

I think the word marraige should be seperated from the governments language. Civil Unions should be made and recognized by goevernment allowing the religeous not to have their sacred word disgraced by what they believe to be wrong. I also thing to prevent roomates from pretending to be gay to get tax breaks ALL civil Unions should have requirements of shared accounts and residence for at least two years before getting any type of tax breaks or anything. Gays have the right to be gay and the same right to benefits of government but you cannot force the church to recognize it. Split the two and call it a day.

And evolution I believe in to an extent. I personaly do not believe in a higher power but I do give credit to the POSSIBILITY of intelligent design until they can come up with more than a theory of how life was first formed from non living substances. I dont believe it but I wont rule it out until there is a scientific answer. I also believe that even though schools should not teach intelligent design as an absolute truth they should peresent it as another scientific theory. Let the people decide what they want to believe.

I am not religeous but I think peacefull religeon is very benefitial to society. Without it morals in a community tend to be a lot lower in my opinion. And before you call all religeous people predudice people I will just point out that it is only a fraction of them that actually treat people different because of their beliefs.

[victorgonzales]

what does everyone say we lobby to get this thread deleted?

i'm sorry i started it, i was depressed in work and was feeling something strongly that i thought would be able to be talked about in an adult manner but the partisan elements hijacked it and soiled everything (dont they always?)
asides from all the right wing lies in this thread, some of the things said about gaza and tonight about guantanamo bay are a complete disgrace, a nasty triumph for lies, propoganda and ignorance.


so please mods, delete it.

for the record i'll never do politics or religion again on the forum, and apologies for my part in this sht thread.

typical liberal. Call conservatives and libertarians names without providing any real substance to the discussion. If you cant ahandle politics without getting offended you shouldnt start threads with insulting uninformed assumptions of conservative views.

Delete away if you want I personally enjoyed the conversations I had with the few people who have a reason for their beliefs that they can explain with some type of informed logic.
we all presented our views and SOME of us managed to do it without calling people names or assuming things about the character and agendas of others.

I suggest we have it moved to the non production part of the forum rather than delete it.