Polyrhythms..

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Atheory
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Post by Atheory » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:17 pm

its the strongest element of an entire continents musical output. to say its nonsensical and pointless is probably a little harsh. u probably should try listen to it more before dismissing it as nonsense is all people are saying.

AK
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Post by AK » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:00 pm

Atheory wrote:its the strongest element of an entire continents musical output. to say its nonsensical and pointless is probably a little harsh. u probably should try listen to it more before dismissing it as nonsense is all people are saying.
You are missing what I was getting at. I'm not dismissing an 'entire continents' music or indeed, anyone who wished to incorporate it into theirs, that's up to them and what they like. My statements are based around what I like in my own music and what appeals to me.

From that angle, I can safely say I just don't see the point as it doesn't really feature in what I find attractive in music.

It's like if I asked you if you like Rhodes chords and Jazzy style compositions and you said no - then gave your reasons. It would be wrong for me to then say, you are dismissing a huge portion of music and you should listen to it more etc etc.

I am not wrong or harsh for not finding something appealing, just as you wouldn't be if it were something you wasn't particularly into. There's never wrong or rights, just subjective opinions.

As I said though, I'm not dismissing it from a listening perspective, if I like something I like it, I am merely talking about what I wish to write. I'm more than happy for you to recommend me some material where polyrhythms are featured and will happily check them out.

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Post by oblioblioblio » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:09 pm

AK wrote: I am not wrong or harsh for not finding something appealing, just as you wouldn't be if it were something you wasn't particularly into. There's never wrong or rights, just subjective opinions.

As I said though, I'm not dismissing it from a listening perspective, if I like something I like it, I am merely talking about what I wish to write. I'm more than happy for you to recommend me some material where polyrhythms are featured and will happily check them out.
dude, of course you are entitled to your opinion. but you quite strongly implied that using polyrhythm was an elitist approach purely for producers to high five one another at the expense of non producers, which was what I was disagreeing with.

i picked out some great polyrhythmic techno earlier in the thread if you'd care to check it out.

Atheory
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Post by Atheory » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:45 pm

@AK, ok, well thanks for your contribution to the thread then mate. :roll:

im gonna find a few posts about things that i..
a)dont really understand musically
b)am not really that into

....and chip in my 2cents. it should really enrich and inliven them.

unbelievable.

AK
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Post by AK » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:57 pm

Now who's harsh?

Jeez, I try something out, mention I don't think it's for me and that bothers you?

Don't be so bloody ridiculous. :roll:

Atheory
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Post by Atheory » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:29 pm

ok, fair enough, maybe i was a bit harsh. but if i can just point your attention to this again.
AK wrote:
Yeah but do you dance to it in nightclubs?

I agree with Minimaltechnohouse. It's not for me, I find it a bit nonsensical and pointless. You can get all technical and 'arty' but it's too alienating for everybody except other chin-stroking producers who just want to out-do each other.
Minimaltechnohouse explains why he's not into them, which is totally fine.
he doesn't decide to paint everyone who uses them with the w*nker brush. Makes a contribution to the thread that he thinks the kill the groove. Thats cool, who cant respect that?.

But you made a very strong assessment of the use of this technique which i found objectionable. did you consider that African societies have a much stronger dancing tradition than western societies as well, and this polyrhythymic music underpins that?

AK
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Post by AK » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:06 pm

Atheory wrote:ok, fair enough, maybe i was a bit harsh. but if i can just point your attention to this again.
AK wrote:
Yeah but do you dance to it in nightclubs?

I agree with Minimaltechnohouse. It's not for me, I find it a bit nonsensical and pointless. You can get all technical and 'arty' but it's too alienating for everybody except other chin-stroking producers who just want to out-do each other.
Minimaltechnohouse explains why he's not into them, which is totally fine.
he doesn't decide to paint everyone who uses them with the w*nker brush. Makes a contribution to the thread that he thinks the kill the groove. Thats cool, who cant respect that?.

But you made a very strong assessment of the use of this technique which i found objectionable. did you consider that African societies have a much stronger dancing tradition than western societies as well, and this polyrhythymic music underpins that?
But you already replied to what I said before and I have tried to explain what I meant by it in further posts too, so this must be some sort of delayed annoyance reaction from you or something? I certainly wasn't trying to upset anyone that's for sure. Why would I wish to do that?

Maybe I was doing it wrong when I tried it, I dunno. I found it quite haphazard and irritating more than it added anything groove orientated and obviously came to view it in a different light than you do.

For groove based dance music, I am not sure I'm seeing the point or validity of it other than artistic merit. I'm more driven by repetition and 4/4 timing and find the feeling of polyrhytmic stuff takes away those accents on downbeats and offbeats and you are left with things occurring here there and everywhere which I find unsettling.

Now I'm not saying all tracks which feature polyrhythmic stuff are going to be un-danceable but there is going to be a point where the merging of odd-time signatures in dance music makes it become armchair music because the rhythms lose repetition and dance-ability, it was in reference to this type of material that I considered chin stroking as I liken it to some forms of IDM. And that doesn't mean they are 'wan*ers' at all. It's not even a derogatory comment so I'm not sure why you have took it as such and the alienating remark isn't either. That was in reference to 'joe public' who are not into music from a producing angle but might be there just to dance to some records and they get tied up in knots because of the rhythms everywhere.

I'm not sure what the connection to Africa is trying to mean? Did you know that India and places like Cuba, and many parts of the world feature polyrhythmic music and they dance too, why the need to stress Africa again and again?. I don't need to consider Africa when I make music, just as I don't need to consider anywhere else that might feature polyrhythms because the fundamental drive behind what I wish to do, isn't related to any of those countries and its musical culture to any significant degree.

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Post by Atheory » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:37 pm

ok fair enough, can see it from your side.

though what you said was really ignorant and just didnt think that was acceptable, thats why i got annoyed. theres so much cultural imperialism shouted by people in the form of opinions that every now and then someone has to say no.

the reason i mentioned africa was because of their extremely rich heritage of polyr and dancing, which was to me relevant to your remarks about the music being undanceable.

but i can see that was not what your angle was, and it was more about your experiences in working them into your music. thats something i cant comment on really. as mentioned above, i think that they are important and i also think that it is good for producers to try different things etc.

so, sorry for any offence cause, cool?

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