what the fck is happening in london

[John Clees]

yeah, i also think it's pathetic... there were several eye witnesser, so c'mon ..

well to say it's pathetic would be your perception (at the moment)...

however a few things come to mind.. "eye witnesses" can be paid... how could they not? is that all it takes to get your belief system, is an eye witnesses to go on the news? as it was attempted to imply (false eye witness testimonies) of some of the school shooting that happened here in the states not too long ago. Connecticut shootings as some sort of non-stop news attention, but meanwhile scandal in Benghazi was going on... only now 6 months later things surface.. it's no wonder it covered all news media nonstop for 4 months straight.... it's media camouflage... here in the states it's done so much on so many levels it's expected...lol * our presidents have been shot and killed for decades with hidden agenda's..

stock markets being bought my hedge fund managers, and big corporations, make ppl feel our economy is getting better creating false hope/impression..creating people to have confidence again in our economic crisis... the gigantic mortgage bubble, selling loans they know they would fail, there are so many endless false impressions given to the general public done with intend it's countless.. and you think the government there is to prissy/holy to have false witnesses go on tv... that's funny to me.. Im not saying it didn't happen but just pointing out, how can you come to the grand conclusion that it did so easily.. * just because a strange person on tv said so?

i find it really disrespectful to the family that lost someone that day.

for the record, I'm not religious nor into politics at all, plus I can't stand watching the news....
to say it's disrespectful to someone who who lost someone that day... of course warm wishes goes out to their family for their loss, that's common sense.. that's a noble thing to feel and to say/think. (If) someone died.. I personally wouldn't know and obviously I wasn't there... but the topic is what the fck happened in london? as I mentioned our generation has learned to question everything. this included. was it anyone you know personally? did you know anyone who actually saw that personally? that connection would be hard evidence, not ..."because it was on the news" ... music programs ppl and news video does even more. case in point.

for me personally, when I saw some random video, of some guy shouting with a knife in his hand, and some lady laying behind him, I thought it was fake.. I question every government in any country and we all know they've been corrupt doing things behind the scenes forever until now.. with camera phones, and other people showing things the you have to at least take into consideration with an open mind that it could be truth. things are not so black and white. it's things like video's, other witnesses that bring forth other pictures, not on the news that shouldn't be ignored. it would be completely bias not to consider other things..and to me it wouldn't be honest just to discredit them from truth..

*also the link I posted was off some email I started to get that I signed up for ... called "What's the 'real' truth" ? about questioning what is shown to the public. if you see other pictures that don't show any blood, from several sides, but then a screen shot from the top, (shown on the news), it all of a sudden shows blood.. why would you not question that?

you can't discredit things because you feel it questions your belief system. how do you think religious people would freak/flip out, if they found out that perhaps the God theory was just to get us to this point in life without killing off our race...? as the Jack Nicholson saying goes, "you can't handle the truth".. it's no wonder the US government doesn't share any info and denies UFO"s exist. common sense, people wouldn't be able to handle it. there is a biblical saying, the fear of the lord, is the beginning of knowledge... perhaps that's saying (indirectly) the fear of the truth, is the beginning of wisdom...as some believe many human law/rules came from the bible but were misinterpreted.

as I posted before more and more ppl are becoming suspect of things that are shown in the media and for very good reason. * also, as I read about the new "terrorist" attack in boston but read further that several ppl in the investigation, were "suddenly killed in a helicopter training accident" not to one, but to two separate ppl... just after this terrorist attack.....that's nearly impossible to say it "just happened"...... but it's the cover up at its finest, only now things can be shared and communicated, and all governments for that matter are coming unraveled..

mark your calenders, Im sure in 6 months from now the real story will unravel real truths as to what is going on now, here in the states and everywhere. it's takes time to cover up what they don't want you to know... only now the strings are being unraveled.. and more and more desperate things will be done to try to save their power, but in the end, the people and truth will come to light.

isn't there a saying, don't believe anything you read, and only belief half of what you see...
things are coming unraveled for all governments faster than ever..
-we the people..

perhaps it took 50 years later after this was made in a movie for the people to truly feel this from
their hearts and are now ready to implement such thoughts and feeling.....


- the hate of men will pass, dictators die..

- the power they took from the people, will return to the people..

- dictators free themselves but enslave the people..

- you the people have the power..

- let's use that power and all unit

[John Clees]

Here is a good anti-enslavement / critical thought video. It kinds of borders on the lines of enlightened critical thought and anti-authoritarianism propaganda.

pretty good thank you for sharing.. that billy crystal movie bit was funny..

[jackbrazzo]

only now the strings are being unraveled.. and more and more desperate things will be done to try to save their power, but in the end, the people and truth will come to light.

name me a time in the past where this happened...Where love conquered evil/money/greed or all of these things. I cannot name one - I think its fantasy land that we will get to that stage. I am in a happy mood today btw, but its what I think. Its destined to fail because of our inherent imperfection.
Its a pity not many others aren't contributing to this thread - very interesting topic.

All you need is love....and an iPad.

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

Its a pity not many others aren't contributing to this thread - very interesting topic.

The problem is that the average person is a huge bitch... that goes doubly so for people who hold political alignments... right wing, left wing, conservative, liberal, progressive, etc... triply so for those who have avoident tendencies. Most people are not comfortable speaking their minds for a variety of reasons. Often they lack confidence, or have friends who disagree, or fear being branded as having a particular political or social alignment... or more often then not fear economic or legal retribution for expressing views that are in contradiction to the aims of others who the silenced person may be dependent on or subservient to. I would imagine that most 'techno people' come from left/liberal leaning backgrounds. Most people subscribe to particular points of view... like a person who may hold one view that in considered to be from a certain social camp will adopt the other views of that social camp because that camp reinforces the one position that they really do care about, especially in matters of self interest.

A bit off topic but related to it all in a way...

I worked with this extremely devout black East African Muslim man for 10 hours a day lifting windows. We were like a couple of slaves for this corporation...

take greece for example, there are many riots there in the last 2 years, but they didnt have to do anything with cultural differences, its just people have no work and no money and are frustrated.

These two things triggered a memory in my mind. Mainly East African Muslims, problems in Greece, techno and cultural subversion.

Actually, there are big cultural problems in Greece. 'Far right wing' anti-immigrant activist groups like Golden Dawn have been waging campaign against immigration. They had enough popular support to attain 21 seats in the Greek parliament but it has more recently dropped to 18 seats.

Back in the early 2000's I used to use p2p software and I downloaded a call to prayer... it was during the time when I worked with that very devout East African Muslim man. I used the call to prayer as a source of audio material in a track I was working on because I liked the way it sounded. It didn't really have any meaning for me to be honest. I mentioned it to the man I worked with and he became extremely serious and told me that what I had done was sacrilegious. I didn't use it after that... I am not sure why but he was a decent enough guy and although I didn't really care what Muslim's would think I left it alone out of respect for my work partner. To me it was just a nice sound, generally meaningless, like a vocal that you might hear Lisa Gerrard (from The Dead Can Dance and every soundtrack you ever heard in a movie) make, but to him it was like the reason the world turned. I don't really care much about his beliefs but I thought he was an decent guy even though we didn't really agree on anything at all and had absolutely nothing in common but I didn't want to offend him because he was good to work with. I may have been guilty of self-censorship and if I was in the same situation today I would have paid no heed. I am past that kind of stuff.

So, last year I think it was, maybe two I heard this track from Unfoundsound by Syntagma called Revolution... I am just wondering what people's thoughts are on the use of the Islamic call to prayer in music, the relation to the use of the words Syntagma which has Greek connotations and the political unrest in Greece... and the idea of Revolution.

To me the mix of these concepts is thought provoking.


Can anyone translate the words of Gaddafi?

[simonb]

I don't think what happened in London stems from class war. It is the result of a cultural war. If you watch the video of one of the man who committed the murder, Michael Adebolajo, he makes a very telling statement.

“I aplologize that women had to witness this today but IN OUR LANDS women have to see the same. You will never be safe.”

That wasn't the only thing he said. He also talked about British troops in the middle east killing civilians (which is because of questionable wars being thought by the ruling classes to maintain their hegemony and flow of capital), and about how the British government doesn't care about its people. These two statements are very indicative of class war.

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

I don't think what happened in London stems from class war. It is the result of a cultural war. If you watch the video of one of the man who committed the murder, Michael Adebolajo, he makes a very telling statement.

“I aplologize that women had to witness this today but IN OUR LANDS women have to see the same. You will never be safe.”

That wasn't the only thing he said. He also talked about British troops in the middle east killing civilians (which is because of questionable wars being thought by the ruling classes to maintain their hegemony and flow of capital), and about how the British government doesn't care about its people. These two statements are very indicative of class war.

Actually yeah, there is validity to your point. Unfortunately money does play a large role in pretty much everything that happens in the world. The cultural conflict is deep though and it has been going on for a very long time. Many centuries. You have to keep in mind though that the world is a big geo-strategic playground full of competing forces. War is a reality of civilization. There are many conflicts happening all over the world and it seems that often the cultural and the economic reasons for conflict goes hand in hand. Economy and culture are closely tied. I wonder about all the ethnic conflict in African states where Christians and Muslims are fighting. How much of it is economic and how much of it is cultural? There has been a lot of wanton slaughter in recent years. Many of the places with the worst conflicts are some of the poorest nations around.

So do you think that the murder was justified because of the war or class struggle?

Just a thought but... as far as I can tell terrorism has never stopped a war but it has started quite a few.

[Themis]

do you really think, an individual like the killer of that soldier, thinks about abstract concepts to justify his actions?

its just an outcry.

in the middle east the people living in poor conditions for the last decades, dictators make their life even more miserable.

now america and europe started at every corner a war - drones kill civilans, throwing bombs at towns, all the storys about soldiers who torture civilians. thats the reality of war.
so it is so easy to tell these people who makes their life miserable. of course its the americans and europeans - look at how we live.
we have plenty of erverything - they have nothing.
and at a deeper level of economics this is even true.

its not possible that all these people have the same livingstandards like USA and the EU. there simply arent enough resources on this planet.
its not possible that every man on earth drives an oil based car - there is just not enough oil.

the western countrys exploit all the other countrys since hundreds of years.
we use up MUCH more resources then any other country. is this fair to you?

terror is the best thing that could happen to the leaders of europe and the usa, now its even easier to paint a picture of the evi muslims who hate us so much.
some day, a leader will rise and tell us all, that the culture between our countrys is just too different and the only way we can solve this problem is to kill them all.

then its WWII all over again, only that now a few atom countrys bomb the sh!t out of a billion people that only have sticks for a weapon. and this time around there are no allied forces to save them.

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

do you really think, an individual like the killer of that soldier, thinks about abstract concepts to justify his actions?
its just an outcry.

Yes I do think that Lee's killers do think about abstract concepts. The attacker justified the killing as being an "eye for an eye". As if killing him was somehow balancing something out. It was a tool to send a message. I am not sure it if is true but I read that they filmed each other and they had a message to communicate which shows that they had a plan and did it with the intention of making a statement. The actions are a result of a cultural conflict. The killers were engaged in a jihadic activity and they were promoting that people in Muslims lands live under Sharia Law. This shows that there were geostrategic motivations for their actions.

in the middle east the people living in poor conditions for the last decades, dictators make their life even more miserable.

I went for a walk in the woods and I was thinking about this actually. I used see a girl every now and then. She was originally of Afghan decent but her family used to live in the Swat Valley area of Pakistan. I think they owned or worked at a resort. Her family fled to Canada when the Taliban came to Swat Valley. She said they were crazy and people were afraid. I don't think everyone in Muslim Lands want to live under Sharia Law.

Whether people want to admit it or not this whole crazy jihad thing is a global conflict. You have a very western-centric viewpoint of all these events but if ya take a step back and look at what is going on around the world you will see there is a bigger picture. There are Islamist movements all over the globe. It is not just a western vs Islamist thing. It is going on all over the place. I think the stuff going on in Thailand is the most disturbing.

The thing is... everyone has got skin in the game. Every nation and group is looking to increase their power and influence. Personally I don't really care too much if Sharia Law is imposed in Muslim Lands so long as it doesn't spread to where I live. If that is really what Muslims want then they should fight for democracy and then write it into their constitutions. It would probably be better for them rather then engaging in terrorism and regional conflicts.

The thing is that they want to spread it just like Americans want to spread their values... you know, human rights, gay rights, women's rights and all that jazz. These things are in diametric opposition. There is a big mind war going on in the world and everyone wants to force everyone else to live by their values. Yeah, economics and class warfare come into it but there is a lot of other stuff going on at the same time.

the western countrys exploit all the other countrys since hundreds of years.
we use up MUCH more resources then any other country. is this fair to you?

No man, it is not fair at all. I am not sure if fairness can be attained. Part of the reason I don't like western immigration much is because I think it is going to be quite hard on the environment. I have seen just how deforested some parts of my country are and it is really depressing.

terror is the best thing that could happen to the leaders of europe and the usa, now its even easier to paint a picture of the evi muslims who hate us so much.some day, a leader will rise and tell us all, that the culture between our countrys is just too different and the only way we can solve this problem is to kill them all.

It seems to me that I have seen a few Muslim religious leaders on the other side who are already saying things like that.

then its WWII all over again, only that now a few atom countrys bomb the sh!t out of a billion people that only have sticks for a weapon. and this time around there are no allied forces to save them.

Well it is a good thing that there are people like you around to remind everybody. To be honest, I think think these little wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are part of a larger attempt at avoiding a WWIII scenario farther down the road. I am probably being overly optimistic but think 20-30 years down the road things will end up being better in Iraq. Hopefully it will evolve into a modern democracy and get it's own hegemony going on. That is... if they can stop car bombing each other long enough to have a dialogue.