The Age Old Question...

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cloutier
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Post by cloutier »

iainkerr7 wrote:If you burn your tracks as an audio cd does this reduce the quality??

Shoud you always burn as mp3??

never thought to ask before:s
wait...what?

a file has to be a wav for it to play as a normal audio cd, so most burning software reconverts whatever the mp3 is back to a wav and then burns that. and no, that doesn't make it sound better.

burning as an mp3, for a data disc, is very different. and, so far as i know, only the cdj.1000's can play mp3 cd's.
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JackNine
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Post by JackNine »

themis, after lots of trial and error, and spending lots of money on the "bigger brand" room treatments (Auralex, Sonex), I've gone with RealTraps (http://www.realtraps.com) and haven't looked back. The guys there really know their stuff and their traps truly work. (Although I do still use some Sonex for my wall treatments as I feel it's superior to Auralex.)

What you were referring to are studio monitor isolation pads, which offer very minimal gains compared to a good set of bass traps, but do work well in isolating your speakers from the desk/mounts. If you had any buzzing or resonance, it will no longer be present.
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Post by miniKAT »

Themis wrote:no MiniKat, thats not a bass trap, its only for absorbing the vibration from the speaker, but it dont help the acoustic (apart from the vibrations)

a bass trap is something like that

http://www.vicoustic.com/imgsprodutos/G ... coteco.JPG

you install it in the corners of the room. because if a bass drone thats because the acoustic in a room is shitty - and a bass trap should solve such a problem. droning happens if the sonic is reflected from walls, without loosing much of its power. then you hear the sound not only once by the time it came out of the speaker, you hear it multiple times, everytime the sonic bounce of a wall and go again to your ear.

A Basstrap absorb much of the power and so you could hear theoreticly a very clear, defined bass.

but in some locations there are natural bass traps, like for example a big bed in a corner of the room. Generally rooms with much furniture have better acoustics.
Oh ok, I dont think I'll go so far as to start doing that, the room where all the gear is, is 2 studios in one. One being my side and the other being my wife's clothes/t-shirt making stuff, so its not really that serious. But I was thinking of getting those things that sit directly under the speakers. Do they absorb some of the vibrations and lessen the "boom", (sorry for the crude terms). But i read they also make the overall sound cleaner. I think it said "the most important 40$ u'll spend for ur studio" or something like that

Edit, so Jack, How many Bass traps would one need,1 for each corner, I'm guessing, and it would be better than isolation pads?
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Post by wax works »

cloutier wrote:
iainkerr7 wrote:If you burn your tracks as an audio cd does this reduce the quality??

Shoud you always burn as mp3??

never thought to ask before:s
wait...what?

a file has to be a wav for it to play as a normal audio cd, so most burning software reconverts whatever the mp3 is back to a wav and then burns that. and no, that doesn't make it sound better.

burning as an mp3, for a data disc, is very different. and, so far as i know, only the cdj.1000's can play mp3 cd's.
Nah I wasn't asking if it would sound better, but by reconverting it to a wav file from say 320, does this degrade the sound or have no effect?

The cdj800 mk2's also play mp3 files but I have never thought about burning an mp3 disk before, would there be little or no difference in terms of the sound quality?
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Post by Themis »

@minikat

http://www.vicoustic.com/solucoesAcusti ... la=1&m2=15

here you get a impression
im no expert at this but i get a room designed like that my self right now, and it seems important to take care of the corners behind the speakers.

it seems a little expensive but i see it as work in progress, you dont have to buy it all at once, every component will increase your room acoustic.

for the 40$ isolation pads, they do have benefit, but they will do no wonders and certainly they will not take away the boom.
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CBR vs VBR as I see it

Post by Shepherd_of_Anu »

nierika wrote:"Variable BitRate encoding is designed for size & quality optimalization. Where there is silence in the music, it is less "demanding" in terms of its encodability, it makes sense to drop the bit rate, simply because there's not much there to encode, and the wasted space is overkill."

I would hope that people (especially on this board) would desire just as much sound quality in the "less demanding" parts of a track.

Also, considering how cheap 500GB+ HDs and DVDR discs are these days, I don't know why anyone would bother with any lossy compression when recording/archiving audio.
It can be kind of a hard thing to visualize but think about watching movies on digital cable or Divx / Xvid. Everything might look superb until you see something like fast running water on Digital Cable you can see artifacts of macro blocks. This is because the bitrate is not fast enough to accommodate the change in data. Most digital cable signals are probably processed on the fly or the media is mass processed for the format.

Professional DVD authors master DVD but adjusting bitrate based on the section of video being processed. That is why you don't see much artifacting in big budget movies from Hollywood, even in action movies.

Audio compression isn't much different except that its harder to quantify or less obvious to point out. You can freeze a frame of video and examine the compression. Its not so easy to freeze a moment of sound because without time sound doesn't really happen.

This isn't an direct representation of how the encoding of the bits and bytes work but just a method of simplifying how I conceptualize the workings of VBR vs CBR. Each block could represent a whole song or just a small section of a sound or music.

:arrow: Each character represents a piece of data.
:arrow: This top line is an abstract way of representing the complexity of a song or sound that is to be encoded.
:arrow: * character represents null or nonexistent or unnecessary data

Code: Select all

Left 320 CBR, Right VBR

1123415318313136 1123415318313136 <- abstract way of representing the complexity of a song or sound.

**************** *********1****** @500 kbps
**************** *********1******
**************** *********1*****1
0000001001000001 ******1**1*****1 @320 kbps
0000101001000001 ****1*1**1**1**1	
0001101101101011 ***11*11*11*1*11	
0011101101101011 **111*11*11*1*11	
1111111111111111 1111111111111111

0000000001111111 0000000001111111 Reference Positions
1234567890123456 1234567890123456 Read in a vertical manner, These are just for our reference.
With the CBR we are guaranteed to reproduce high quality audio that is guaranteed to be piped though at a constant rate of 320kbps. This is going to produce acceptably good quality sound and the data will be processed at a constant rate. The trade off is that we have to process the same amount of data regardless of the content of the audio.

With VBR the data is only processed if it is needed to reproduce the sound accurately. Other data is disregarded.

CBR gives good sound but you have a lot of unnecessary overhead when processing simple sounds or silence.

Looking to the complexity aspect...

Go to reference point 6 (RP6)

Complexity = 1

CBR = 00001
VBR = ****1

The sound is not complex and is represented accuately in both CBR and VBR.
CBR must process 4 additional units of data (0's) so that it meets the 320kbps bitrate.
VBR disregards the extra data and saves the space.

Go to reference point 10 (RP10)

Complexity = 8

CBR = 11111
VBR = 11111111

The sound is more complex here.
CBR 320 bks bit rate is insuffient to accurately reproduce RP10 to the same standards of RP6.
VBR increases the bitrate to 500kbps accommodate this higher level of complexity.

The amount of data for RP 10 would actually be larger then 320 CBR thus creating a better represention of the original sound.

If you add up all the units of data for CBR and VBR (disregarding the - data that VBR disregards)

CBR 80 Units
VBR 47 Units

VBR ends up producing (mostly) smaller files and better represents the original audio.

Note that at RP10 the complexity of audio of rated at 8.
CBR 320 can only represent 5 Units of data while CBR increases its data size to 8 to accommodate the complexity.
:arrow: This would mean that 320bks CBR is sacrificing 3 units of complexity in its representation of the data which results in poorer representation of the original audio.

This is why highest quality VBR files will show bit rates that are well over 320 kbps. I have seen bitrates above 600kbps in VBR files. Just taking a quick glance here but seems most of my 16 bit Wave files have bitrates of 1411kbps for a point of reference.

Granted this is just an abstraction of what is going on but I think it makes sense. I have been reading about this for awhile and I think I am being won over by the VBR proponents.

To be honest its very hard to really tell the difference with a lot of tracks but I am starting to hear differences the more I listen. Could all be in my head though :P
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Post by miniKAT »

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Shepherd_of_Anu
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Post by Shepherd_of_Anu »

miniKAT wrote:ok, this is probably a stupid question, but if I have some 192 or 128 and I conver them up to 320, would that make the sound quality better or is that like recording a tape onto a cd?

Thanx
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