A thought/Idea that I have yet to try.

[AK]

In kind of an off-shoot from talking about bass and then about kickdrums and then about bass sitting on the top of kickdrums etc, it crossed my mind that 2 of the same frequencies, could, in theory, occupy the same space.

Here's the 'as-yet-to-be-tried-theory'....First, if we look at synthesis, say subtractive synthesis and a synth with 2 oscillators. We all know that it's perfectly possible to create a sound comprising of two waveforms at the same frequency. For example, a sawtooth and square bass sound.

When using 2 of the SAME waveforms at the same frequency, we also know that phase cancellation can occur but when the 2 waveforms work together, they create a solid output. With that in mind, surely it's conceivable to suggest that the same thing could be applied to a bass sound of the same frequency as the kick occupying the same midi event as long as the waveforms of the 2 sounds are not phase cancelling?

In some ways in sounds kinda logical but people always talk about sidechaining, eq'ing, using bass patterns which don't fall on the kick etc but I'm interested in trying out this with attention paid to the waveforms of the 2 sounds. Say I had an 808 type kick, ie: not too much additional harmonic content going on, more of a sine with a pitch envelope kinda sound. And lets say it was tuned at E/41.hz, Logically, why should it be an issue to use an E/41hz bass note ontop of it if the waveform is different to the kick? Surely by looking at the methods of synthesis for say the example I started out with on that bass sound, this should be absolutely possible?

Like I say, not tried it though, I was just reading something and it came into my head. I can't do music at the minute co's I have the flu and my ears and nasal passages are so bunged up it all sounds muffled and hurts but I'm itching to experiment with it.

[tone-def]

i have my kick and bass play the same frequency at the same time quite a lot. the kick and bass blend together and i think it sounds good.

[kivetros]

Wouldn't that just make the low end too loud at those moments - like an unwanted increase in volume? I sidechain a lot of stuff to move things out of the kick's way, because in my work, a lot of the track's energy depends on the kick slamming through the mix 4 times per bar, and I would think that playing the kick and bass at the same time would throw the whole low end off.

Is that a good approach, though? In my few days here, I have already heard a few things about sidechaining not being held in very high regard.

-K

[hydrogen]

Edit: this post is incorrect... the kick resolves at G and the bass is at E. Sorry, I jumped the gun... but at one point they were both in the same Key! I changed it and it sounded way better.

Maybe I've got this wrong but I think i remember using those exact frequencies

I think saw/sine for bass(synth1) and sine for kick(BassIZM)... had to do plenty of side chain to get it to work... also against everyone's advice I ran both the bass and kick into the same buss(saturation/compression)... at the time it was the only way i could get them to mojo.

[tone-def]

Is that a good approach, though? In my few days here, I have already heard a few things about sidechaining not being held in very high regard

everyone uses different techniques. if you like using sidechaining and it makes your tracks sound better, don't let people on forums put you off.

[kivetros]

everyone uses different techniques. if you like using sidechaining and it makes your tracks sound better, don't let people on forums put you off.

Fair enough - but if there are any arguments against using sidechaining, I'd love to hear them. It's a technique that I've always taken for granted as an essential tool in every producer's arsenal, but if there's a way to get a track to pump and flow without sidechaining everything together, I'd like to know (in better interest of learning more about the craft).

-K

[AK]

Maybe I've got this wrong but I think i remember using those exact frequencies

I think saw/sine for bass(synth1) and sine for kick(BassIZM)... had to do plenty of side chain to get it to work... also against everyone's advice I ran both the bass and kick into the same buss(saturation/compression)... at the time it was the only way i could get them to mojo.

I like that, .... Love those shakers in there..I was thinking as I listened to it that there wasn't a kick/bass happening together, then I got to the bit where I understand what you mean. I often buss kick/bass together with a little compression as well, the only reason I don't use sidechaining is because I simply don't like the effect of it and if I do it gently so as to not get that pumping effect, it doesn't really make a difference to anything so I just think I'm doing uneccessary things.

Is that a good approach, though? In my few days here, I have already heard a few things about sidechaining not being held in very high regard

everyone uses different techniques. if you like using sidechaining and it makes your tracks sound better, don't let people on forums put you off.

You've said this before and I keep thinking I'm in there when you say this to people because I have said I don't use it. I would never say don't use it or anything, that's just stupid, all I have said is that I myself don't use it.

[AK]

everyone uses different techniques. if you like using sidechaining and it makes your tracks sound better, don't let people on forums put you off.

Fair enough - but if there are any arguments against using sidechaining, I'd love to hear them. It's a technique that I've always taken for granted as an essential tool in every producer's arsenal, but if there's a way to get a track to pump and flow without sidechaining everything together, I'd like to know (in better interest of learning more about the craft).

-K

Well one of the reasons I don't use it is because I like to create my own dynamics with velocity which I try to use to get a certain groove. Could be a 'push/pull' thing, or it could be a flowing, pumping thing etc. But then, I find in order to get the sidechain effect to actually do something, the effect is has interferes with my intended groove. Some people set out to incorporate the sidechain effect AS a fundamental part of that groove. I don't and then it does my head in co's I feel it's a different track.

That's my reasons for not using it, but also because i always think I'm dodging mix issues too. Like I just said in my last post, I'd never say to someone 'don't use it', my own personal tastes may be totally different to the next guy, neither are any more valid because it's all subjective. At the end of the day, do what you think sounds good. The more techniques you know, the more scope for experimentation you have. There's loads of things I like that people might think were terrible ideas but that would never affect me because my ears tell me different...