'sub' bass tech bass something something

[NoAffiliation]

im no science expert by any stretch

but if you run a spectrum analyzer on a pure unfiltered sine @ the highest block rate available on the analyzer (SPAN --> Hi Resolution mode) the sine produced by a softsynth will have a larger bandwidth than a single frequency. if you make a kick drum out of a sine with pitch envelope even more bandwidth shows up. i guess you could argue that those frequencies are happening at different points in time during the envelope decay so it's never actually simultaneous but the ear still perceives the kick to contain more frequencies. so maybe the synths don't make perfect sine waves to begin with, maybe not possible? i can't answer that but i also know that creating a perfect filter even in the digital world is impossible as well... guess i will read up on this more

but its still just a sinewave

exactly

[steevio]

exactly

not sure what we're talking about here any more.

just seems like you're twisting the argument around to make it sound like everything you said made sense, but some of it was wrong bro.
if i want a pure sinewave sub, i just switch on my Livewire AFG, and it will produce a pure sinewave of just one frequency and no harmonics, and EQing or filtering it will only produce one effect - volume change.

[AK]

exactly

not sure what we're talking about here any more.

just seems like you're twisting the argument around to make it sound like everything you said made sense, but some of it was wrong bro.
if i want a pure sinewave sub, i just switch on my Livewire AFG, and it will produce a pure sinewave of just one frequency and no harmonics, and EQing or filtering it will only produce one effect - volume change.

^^^^

This.

The whole point has gone completely off the radar. The question was simple, it was asking how your statement could be backed up, that being that there are harmonics present in a sine wave.

The answer is simple too, there aren't.

[NoAffiliation]

ughhh, last post on here ever

i have no interest in trying to make what i said make sense, if you dont understand it in the context thats not my problem. it's possible i went off on a few seemingly unrelated tangents but thats the way it went. all i know is this board will go without my contributions from now on

steevio said it himself, a pitch enveloped sine wave is still just a sine, look at it on the analyzer and it has alot more than a fundamental and it's JUST a sine wave. what else isn't clear.

i also found i was correct that the perfect sine doesnt exist so the "pure" sine out of a synth does contain more than a fundamental frequency. i was also correct about how filter design being imperfect is in fact related to this same concept

this message board never moves forward, its the same people with the same topics for years. we never talk about vectors, space or any other topics that would probably end these stupidly mundane threads about tech house bass

[AK]

Ahem! Twas I that said a pure sine doesn't exist, it was you who said, 'in the real world etc etc'

What's a pitch envelope got to do with harmonics? The question was simple, where are the harmonics above the fundamental in a sine wave? You failed to answer. In fact, you haven't responded to anything, just spat your dummy out and stamped your feet. Ego issues? I dunno, pretty poor posts to be honest, you can't debate about anything and just walk off in a huff.

[steevio]

steevio said it himself, a pitch enveloped sine wave is still just a sine, look at it on the analyzer and it has alot more than a fundamental and it's JUST a sine wave. what else isn't clear.

i didnt say that it had alot more than a fundamental though.

it doesnt have a lot more than a fundamental, it is just a fundamental that is changing in pitch.

if you freeze it in time it is just a fundamental, if you say that it has more than a fundamental you are saying it has harmonics, it doesnt. if you freeze it in time and it has harmonics, its not a sinewave.

i dont want to argue with you mate, but you are confusing the issue talking about a spectrum analyser, of course if you pitch bend a sinewave it will show up as a band of frequencies over time on an analyser, but that doesnt mean it is anything other than a fundamental wave.

the reason that these mundane threads about bass keep coming up is because beginners keep asking about it, it seems to be a popular topic, and if things dont move foward its because no-one brings up new topics, so if you've got something to say about vectors then why not start a topic about it instead of taking the huff with us on this mundane topic, when all we are doing is stating facts about very basic principles of physics and music.
maybe a solution is to ban threads about bass and point the noobs to the search facility.

but you know what. i agree, someone start a less mundane topic, no offense to the OP.

[AK]

Sorry for being nasty in my last post but it just angered me because you're not listening and you were just responding in anger and sarcasm to questions put to you. It really doesn't help your corner by doing that. And now you say that you are not going to post anymore?

Why?

Because people disagree with what you have said?

I'm still baffled about this pitch envelope thing. If I took a sine wave and stuck a pitch envelope on it, what's happening? It's this:

I'm altering the pitch of it, nothing more. I could go mad with my pitch bend wheel but all I'm doing is changing the pitch of it.

quote: "look at it on the analyzer and it has alot more than a fundamental and it's JUST a sine wave. what else isn't clear"

What's clear is that you are completely wrong. The pitch alters because of the ramp from the envelope, that's it, plain and simple. It's just pitch alteration, you are confusing pitch with harmonics, how does a sine wave with a pitch envelope have a 'lot more than a fundamental'?

That's all it is, a fundamental with a pitch envelope.


I give up, I really do.

[AK]

btw, filtering a sine is not pointless, because unlike by textbook definition a sine in real life is more than just a single fundamental. i know plenty of people who use it to great effect by bumping up that resonance on a low filtered sine wave to get huge rumble

This is all that I am arguing against. Why can't you just answer this?

Question1: For what reason would you have a low 'FILTERED' sine? What are you filtering?

Question 2: You said, " Bumping up THAT resonance ". What resonace exactly would that be?

Question 3: You said, " A sine in 'real life' is more than just a fundamental. How exactly?

What's wrong with those questions? Just provide an answer.