Setting up a record label

[steevio]

Thanks Steevio, you've said alot of things that I've been thinking there...

I'm sick to death of mp3's i cant stand them and I believe proper 'real' music should be on vinyl. There are a huge amount of 'record only' labels around at the moment and there records always seem to sell well (thats obviously down to the quality side of things) but thats what I suppose would be the drive of running a label for me. Putting out music that has soul and that you'd want to have a piece of it in years to come, not just a file lying somewhere on a hard drive.

i dont buy mp3's in fact ive never bought one ever, but i'm not sure i can agree about the 'real' music thing. music is music what ever the format.

the best selling mp3 on my own label started out as a UK-only self distributed (out of the boot of my car) vinyl record in 2003 which sold 800 copies in the UK, and about 5 mp3s on Beatport in 4 years, then in 2007 a visiting German friend of mine heard it and took 5 vinyl copies back to Germany with him, within 2 weeks i had orders for the remaining 200 'under the bed' copies, it reached number one in the Freebase Records of Frankfurt chart, had to be repressed several times, was charted and featured on mixes by several well known DJs who bought the vinyl in Germany, and has been our best selling mp3 on Beatport every month ever since for the last two years and still is.
the tunes were written in 2002, and its still relevant almost 8 years later, and it launched the careers of two of the artists on the record as it was their first ever releases, and they are now well known artists with their own label as well as releasing regularly on big labels.

this record was just me and my mates sticking some vinyl out totally self financed, with no distribution deal.

you cannot predict the music business.
what is the point of viewing it from a business perspective ?

just make quality music, and do what feels right.

[tbag]

what do people even mean by "real" or "proper"?

isn't whats "real" subjective. go to a rock music forum and i'm sure there so loads of people talking about their music and tastes being more "real" than house or techno.

i don't think i'd be able to name a digital only label off the top of my head or anything, but surely what those people are doing is real too?

there was a reggie dokes track i wanted to get for a friend the other day and after looking for it for ages i realised it was digital only. does that make it less real?

My definition of 'real' music would be music that has soul and an element of art attached. I think this is what mp3's lack. If you got that Reggie Dokes track for your friend on mp3 and they really love it then a few years down the line do you think they'll still remember it the way they would if it was on vinyl? Whats the name of the track btw, reggie is great!

Dont get me wrong, I've nothing against labels that are digital only, i stopped buying vinyl completely for a couple of years when mp3's first became big but I realised then I was just constantly downloading loads and loads of music to the point where I'd be looking at my tracks not knowing what was what then i realised that when i get older I want to be able to look back at my music so i suppose thats why i want to go down the vinyl road.

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

[steevio]

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

and that sums it all up really. out of my 5 closest friends in music, one cannot suffer mp3s at all, he refuses to acknowledge their existence, will only buy and DJ vinyl, another has totally embraced digital music and thinks vinyl is history, and the other 3 have varying views in between.
some of them have given up on vinyl and then gone back to it, others have sworn allegience to vinyl and then dropped it suddenly.

i'm sure that there will always be a place for a physical format for music, just as there is a place for hardware synths, just as there is room for physical art, sculpture etc. its physicality gives it some sort of longevity and durability. the digital world sometimes seems ethereal and insubstantial in comparison.

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

[Atheory]

My definition of 'real' music would be music that has soul and an element of art attached. I think this is what mp3's lack. If you got that Reggie Dokes track for your friend on mp3 and they really love it then a few years down the line do you think they'll still remember it the way they would if it was on vinyl? Whats the name of the track btw, reggie is great!

Dont get me wrong, I've nothing against labels that are digital only, i stopped buying vinyl completely for a couple of years when mp3's first became big but I realised then I was just constantly downloading loads and loads of music to the point where I'd be looking at my tracks not knowing what was what then i realised that when i get older I want to be able to look back at my music so i suppose thats why i want to go down the vinyl road.

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

i get ya.

sometimes i think people care more about the format than the music. you know, everyones defending their format so much and its easier to talk about that than admit that the scene is a bit low on imagination compared to other things happening. but no one wants to talk about that.

that reg track is on offering records. http://www.traxsource.com/index.php?act ... s&cv=31650#
thats the link, cant find a site, but i didnt look so hard.
yeah, its kind of a nice track, girl has an amazing voice, track goes off a bit and gets a bit acid-jazz-lite for my tastes, but its overall a nice 6am kind of track.

[master b]

fantastic posts from steevio.

there have also been a lot of very sound points made. vinyl is not a money generator, unless of course you're breaking 500+ each release. all i can say is try to do something unique and let the music speak for itself. promotion and dj feedback is pretty much standard nowadays but given that nearly all responses are the same then i have to doubt the value it brings. what i would advise is to get a handful of tests pressed, maybe 20 and hit the big reviewers and the djs who still push vinyl. it's still rings true that a reviewer will take more notice of a 12" coming through the post than a link to an mp3. i plan to create a vinyl only label next year and that's the tack im going to take.

also - only do a small run to start with but ensure that you can do another with ease and for little additional cost. that way you can avoid the risk of being left with 200 unsold records but if it does sell out you can easily go back and do another run.

trying to get a big name on board is difficult. it will cost you money you probably cant afford, unless you literally plan to throw money at the venture. if you have limited funds then you really need to focus on your output and be extremely selective.

[dsat]

steevio is spot on

if you want to start a label out of passion, then please forget things like business models, marketing or other similar shite... you're not starting an empire here

i started a vinyl label in 2005 and had to close it because my sales were way too low, this due to my being way too naive combined with distros not doing their jobs properly

now i'm running 2 other labels and i need a job to keep everything afloat and yet i still love doing it, although i had to learn a few lessons the hard way

just go for it as steevio said
but don't lose track of what's happening marketwise though without having to jump on any bandwagon's... do your thing but make sure it fits somewhere on today's market...

as for promotion, you can have the nicest feedbacks and reviews and still sell 200 or get less-promising feedback and yet break even
i once sold 50 copies despite having very good feedback... (i have now boxes gathering dust in my bedroom)

there's no water-proof way to do this, you will lose money, you will make mistakes, and you will get desperate sometimes, but it's part of the game

one important thing though when you get a distro deal... check first what other labels they distribute for... if your label doesn't seem to fit with the other labels, then chances are the distro won't be able to promote you and sell your records properly... you need to get the right music with the right distributor

[steevio]

i just thought it was worth adding a few points, because while i totally agree in some respects with what people are saying, my experiences have been different in some ways.

on the pressing front, most of the cost of your record is in the mastering/cutting, the metalwork (stamper) origination, set-up costs for pressing, and if you are not just using white labels, the label printing.
the vinyl itself is as cheap as chips, around 50p (0.5 euro) per record.
so often its not worth only pressing a small run (say 100 or 200) because for very little extra money you can press 350 - 500.
i wouldnt advise pressing more than this, but if you totally believe in your music, its no big deal to have an extra 100 or so records under the bed, because;
a/ you can give them away to DJs at gigs as promos,
b/ if the music is good you will sell them eventually, this has been my experience, if you sell them from your website / or on discogs, or approach big shops / small distros and sell them in small batches.
this might take a few years, so your music has to be timeless and not following a specific generic fashion.
the thing is, labels printers will only do runs of 500 or 1000, and if you run out of vinyl copies, it will cost you more to do another small run, as you have to pay for the set-up costs again.

for the same reasons i dont think its worth doing a small run of whites.

advice; dont get too many test pressings done expecting to use them as promos, because test pressings are only meant for you to check that the right tunes are on the vinyl, and that theres no major clicks or jumps.
the quality is usually sh!t ! TPs are run off when the presses are not warmed up properly, and they usually sound crackly and dull.

sending promos ;
i used to have a list of around 100 DJs and i used to send 100 white lables out. I dont do it any more, infact now i dont send any out at all.
its unbelievably expensive !! the postage alone is a small fortune.
it might be worth sending a few finished copies to say your favourite 5 DJs, but i dont even do this anymore.
vinyl DJs will buy your record if they like it !! i know for a fact that some of the DJs i used to send vinyl to, now buy them.

and dont expect any feedback, DJs are lazy and/or dont have the time.
so you send out 50 records, dont hear anything back, dont know whether they liked it or played it, what was the point ?

cheap pressing;
dont do it !!!! whatever you do, do not use cheap package deals (vinyl+labels+sleeves) the quality is usally very poor, you get what you pay for.
try to source good quality pressing / printing etc from advice given by people who have used the companies before and have had good results.

avoid brokers ! these guys are usually unreliable and are taking your money for doing virtually nothing. you can do it all your self very easily.
ive had some very bad experiences from brokers, like loosing 1000 record sleeves, and they slow the whole process down.

i'll do another post on distros later, got to go right now.

[PsyTox]

steevio is spot on

if you want to start a label out of passion, then please forget things like business models, marketing or other similar shite... you're not starting an empire here

i started a vinyl label in 2005 and had to close it because my sales were way too low, this due to my being way too naive combined with distros not doing their jobs properly

now i'm running 2 other labels and i need a job to keep everything afloat and yet i still love doing it, although i had to learn a few lessons the hard way

just go for it as steevio said
but don't lose track of what's happening marketwise though without having to jump on any bandwagon's... do your thing but make sure it fits somewhere on today's market...

as for promotion, you can have the nicest feedbacks and reviews and still sell 200 or get less-promising feedback and yet break even
i once sold 50 copies despite having very good feedback... (i have now boxes gathering dust in my bedroom)

there's no water-proof way to do this, you will lose money, you will make mistakes, and you will get desperate sometimes, but it's part of the game

one important thing though when you get a distro deal... check first what other labels they distribute for... if your label doesn't seem to fit with the other labels, then chances are the distro won't be able to promote you and sell your records properly... you need to get the right music with the right distributor

solid advice and applies exactly to what I experienced. Although I hope that I'll have zero boxes left of the next franco cangelli project
Same goes for steevio's post, although most pressing plants now offer good deals for 300 pcs as well. We get 300 vinyls, with full color center stickers, mastering, the works for 575 GBP so that's pretty okay. And we are certainly very happy where we are but it took a few releases to find the right ones... and that costs money, and lots of it.

The only advice I can give when you do vinyl: ask around what pressing plants others use and don't be shy to negotiate.