isn't art in general an expression of our self-consciousness ? (i mean we human beings)Der geile Ami wrote:
Minimalism for me seems to often be a conscious decision, something cavemen might not have had hte capacity for.
The Minimal artistic ideal
hehe, interesting. I registered on this forum because I was so into minimal, and the place seemed to be a good resource for all kind of (producing)information regarding that music 'genre'. With time, and a lot of thinkings and readings on this forum I realized more and more that sticking to minimal for my productions was such a limitation. To keep a long story short: I like minimal, I'm influenced by minimal, but I don't try to make minimal,... just music.tzusing wrote:a part of me totally agrees with you. but the irony of this whole situation is that you are on MNML.NL. So that minimal in the url of this forum must still mean something to you.Torque wrote:I think the whole term "minimal" has been turned into a farce. It's not descriptive of the music. It's all just techno music and techno is all just house music and house music is all just dance music. The term "Minimal" isn't even a noun, so if something is "minimal" it's minimal ---------What?
minimal my ass !
Torque wrote:I think the whole term "minimal" has been turned into a farce. It's not descriptive of the music. It's all just techno music and techno is all just house music and house music is all just dance music. The term "Minimal" isn't even a noun, so if something is "minimal" it's minimal ---------What? The marketing term of "minimal" should be fine for the masses that come to the parties, get drunk, go home and fck but i find the prospect of a bunch of upstart dance music producers falling for the slogan a bit disturbing. If you just forget about trying to sound anything like anybody else your natural sound will come through. The producers like Robert Hood, Jeff Mills, Richie Hawtin and a few other planted the seed that will be felt in the music for years to come but those cats didn't get where they are by trying to sound like other people. If you stick yourself inside the minimal box you will be no better than a parrot repeating the phrases that they laid down years ago and will not innovate, will not leave an imprint and may be heard but will not be listened to. Where's your sense of adventure?
This pretty much the only part of this thread worth reading...
I wonder if I know you.. im in the D too...well for now anyway
Minimal Techno = Studio 1
No offense to the people who stared this site but quite frankly the URL means nothing to me. I forget exactly how i came across this board but i know exactly why i stick around. I'm here because i enjoy using the same technology that most of you all do for making electronic music. People that make Detroit style techno are allot more closed minded regarding the new software technology then you guys seem to be and i like that. But on this board allot of the stuff i see is allot more closed minded in the musical area itself regarding the genre itself. I stay here because i enjoy helping people that are new to the game. I know i'm a loudmouth mthrfckr but i can't help it, it's just the way i am, i tend to think out loud. What i'm hearing is that allot of so-called minimal cats seem to be stuck in a rut musicly and 98% of the stuff i hear from the so-called minimal community sounds exactly the same as the last minimal track i heard before it. The only named genre that i can think of that has had less diversity was hard techno in the late 90's and early 2000's. I don't know about you but for me that sets off a red flag. I think the concept behind minimalism is genious and it would be a shame to just sit back and watch it become a period piece like acid house or hard techno did. I don't mean to be a buzzkill but honestly if you're just now getting into the electronic music production game and are hell bent on making minimal you are at the least 7 years too late. If you make a record that ends up sounding like allot of other peoples without a twist or innovation you are going to single handedly contribute to the demise of this genre. That stuff would have been fine in the past when there was a lack of records with that sound but to do it now would just be flooding the market and will end up hurting the people who got the genre where it is. I have real respect for the concept of minimalism and the genre itself and that is the reason i don't make minimal techno records for a living. I don't want to see it turned into a musical footnote. The way forward is to take a good lesson from what you hear and hold onto it and then add in something different and i hear very little of that in the genre. Why do you think Rob Hood hasn't made any Monobox records in fck knows how long now, why do you think Basic Channel is sitting off to the side? It's because they've seen the market get flooded out before and they know if they keep making those records they are just going to add to it's demise. If you love minimal don't make minimal make something new. You can take the knowlege gained from the genre and use it in something thats twisted out and different enough that it rides the edge of minimal and something else. It's not exactly an easy thing to do and not everybody is equipped to do it. If innovation was easy all of us would be millionaires, but the difficulty is no excuse for not trying.tzusing wrote:a part of me totally agrees with you. but the irony of this whole situation is that you are on MNML.NL. So that minimal in the url of this forum must still mean something to you.Torque wrote:I think the whole term "minimal" has been turned into a farce. It's not descriptive of the music. It's all just techno music and techno is all just house music and house music is all just dance music. The term "Minimal" isn't even a noun, so if something is "minimal" it's minimal ---------What?
It's possible...A/V wrote:Torque wrote:I think the whole term "minimal" has been turned into a farce. It's not descriptive of the music. It's all just techno music and techno is all just house music and house music is all just dance music. The term "Minimal" isn't even a noun, so if something is "minimal" it's minimal ---------What? The marketing term of "minimal" should be fine for the masses that come to the parties, get drunk, go home and fck but i find the prospect of a bunch of upstart dance music producers falling for the slogan a bit disturbing. If you just forget about trying to sound anything like anybody else your natural sound will come through. The producers like Robert Hood, Jeff Mills, Richie Hawtin and a few other planted the seed that will be felt in the music for years to come but those cats didn't get where they are by trying to sound like other people. If you stick yourself inside the minimal box you will be no better than a parrot repeating the phrases that they laid down years ago and will not innovate, will not leave an imprint and may be heard but will not be listened to. Where's your sense of adventure?
This pretty much the only part of this thread worth reading...
I wonder if I know you.. im in the D too...well for now anyway
Minimal Techno = Studio 1
p.s.
Minimal Techno = Silence
You're absolutely right! I grew up in Flint, started partying in Detroit.. For years now the Made in Detroit purists have stuck to the aesthetic using the same gear cats were using in the 80's and 90's: 303, 909, 606, 808, MPC60, Juno, SP1200, DX7, Proteus.. A lot (most?) of those cats talk mad sh!t, like if we use a computer or newer gear we are somehow not keeping it real. Very much in the same vein as some reggae cats who can't except anything that is not a 7" 45 from Kingston! In Flint it was way different. Everyone wanted to mix the old gear with the newest technology and programs, which resulted in a period where Flint music was very ahead of the game.Torque wrote:People that make Detroit style techno are allot more closed minded regarding the new software technology..
i hear ya
It's actually pretty ironic.
The reason Techno sounded the way it did was because nobody in Detroit could afford the expensive equipment so automaticly the music was going to sound different than pop music. That is the exact reason i use computers, because it's cheaper than the hardware and yet i still seem to get some sh!t from some locals out here for it. I don't really care though, there are allot of people out there that have loads of hardware and make complete bullshit with it. People for some reason don't want to admit that the sound is in the hands of the user. Give a real talent just a tin can and a 4 track reel to reel and his track will wipe the floor with the talentless rich kid who sits in his room that looks like the Moog factory. These cats need to admit that equipment is an inadimate object that does not play itself, it takes human interaction to give it soul.
It's actually pretty ironic.
The reason Techno sounded the way it did was because nobody in Detroit could afford the expensive equipment so automaticly the music was going to sound different than pop music. That is the exact reason i use computers, because it's cheaper than the hardware and yet i still seem to get some sh!t from some locals out here for it. I don't really care though, there are allot of people out there that have loads of hardware and make complete bullshit with it. People for some reason don't want to admit that the sound is in the hands of the user. Give a real talent just a tin can and a 4 track reel to reel and his track will wipe the floor with the talentless rich kid who sits in his room that looks like the Moog factory. These cats need to admit that equipment is an inadimate object that does not play itself, it takes human interaction to give it soul.
i'm not some minimal techno missionary or anything like that. my point was to merely state an obvious aesthetic connection between this music and many other types of music out there. (if you would go back in the thread and read what i wrote)
i think we are talking about two different things. yes minimal techno a farce, to a certain extend i agree with you, it has been bastardized by the media. sure....
but defining underlining aesthetics doesn't kill a genre, it doesn't limit a genre. it actually creates new things. But what kills it is a flooding of uncreative minds and copy cats.
like i stated in my previous post. i see the same type of minimal aesthetics in eastern religious music as i do in stuff like basic channel. i don't think that is limiting. as a matter of fact i think that is an example of how expansive this "minimal" thing is.
but as far as copy cats go. well i'll say that...i can't take on that challenge. at least not now. you have to learn to walk before you learn to fly. i firmly believe that. and also i have much respect for "copy cats" guys like tadd mullinix. who said something like "i'm not interested in creating new ground breaking sh!t , but rather make music in the existing genres and do it very well." and i think few of us can deny how amazing all of his idm/acid/techno/hiphop sh!t is.
also as flooded as the market is with current "minimal techno" records...few of them are good.
i have a very hard time finding good "minimal techno" records. so i don't see the harm in making music in the same genre but making it sound really good.
i think we are talking about two different things. yes minimal techno a farce, to a certain extend i agree with you, it has been bastardized by the media. sure....
but defining underlining aesthetics doesn't kill a genre, it doesn't limit a genre. it actually creates new things. But what kills it is a flooding of uncreative minds and copy cats.
like i stated in my previous post. i see the same type of minimal aesthetics in eastern religious music as i do in stuff like basic channel. i don't think that is limiting. as a matter of fact i think that is an example of how expansive this "minimal" thing is.
but as far as copy cats go. well i'll say that...i can't take on that challenge. at least not now. you have to learn to walk before you learn to fly. i firmly believe that. and also i have much respect for "copy cats" guys like tadd mullinix. who said something like "i'm not interested in creating new ground breaking sh!t , but rather make music in the existing genres and do it very well." and i think few of us can deny how amazing all of his idm/acid/techno/hiphop sh!t is.
also as flooded as the market is with current "minimal techno" records...few of them are good.
i have a very hard time finding good "minimal techno" records. so i don't see the harm in making music in the same genre but making it sound really good.