Help me with my levels

[Toloache]

Thanks for the input. Do you think the it's the arrangement that was better or the actual sounds? I tend to prefer the sound of a 808 and a bass not over 100 hz at the fundamental, but i can't never make this comibination sound right and not muffled. I hear everyday some fats 808's working with some earth shattering bass underneath and i wonder how they create space around the kick without losing it's impact. Compression and eq doesn't seem to help in my case, maybe im just doing it wrong, who knows!

[AK]

I tend to prefer the sound of a 808 and a bass not over 100 hz at the fundamental, but i can't never make this comibination sound right and not muffled. I hear everyday some fats 808's working with some earth shattering bass underneath and i wonder how they create space around the kick without losing it's impact. Compression and eq doesn't seem to help in my case, maybe im just doing it wrong, who knows!

If you have a busy bassline, avoid having too much decay on your kick. You just don't need it if the bass is providing all the low end. A long 808 kick and sustained bass notes is going to cause issues. Not saying that's what you're doing but I'm just stating the obvious...

Also, when you say you don't like 'bass over 100hz at the fundamental' I'm not sure if you mean you are wanting to keep bass in the sub range with little or no upper frequency activity. In other words, if you are using a sine wave type bass in the assumption it with provide 'sub bass', you can be left with no upper bass in the frequency spectrum, it's hard for the ear to make out any note information, it can appear as though your track is 'bass-light' on domestic hi fi's which cut off at say 80hz or so and as you compensate, the tendency is to just increase the gain and then when you hear it through a speaker system with an extended low end, you can't hear sh!t else but bass.

Try making bass sounds from harmonically richer source sounds. By starting out with a full rich sound like a pulse or a saw wave, you can just use a LP filter and your envelopes to remove higher frequency content and shape it to get a low sub-type bass whilst keeping upper end bass activity. You'll feel the really low frequencies but the upper bass end will provide definition and clarity. You'll get a much fuller bass this way rather than trying to overload the very low end.

There's plenty of threads on here where frequencies are discussed too, tuning kicks, etc and paying attention to the frequencies and harmonics esp. in the low end. But also, an obvious thing to try out is a notch eq. Solo your kickdrum and stick an analyzer on it. Note the main peaking frequency, lets say for arguments sake it's 50 hz. Stick and eq on the bass channel and sweep the frequency until you're at 50hz and shorten the q width as much as it will go, then start taking a few db's out of the bass at the kicks frequency. Experiment with the q width and reduction amount and see how they work.

Of course, you can also synthesize bass so that there's no clashing fundamental with your kick, pulse waves are good here as the width of the pulse width will alter it's harmonic content. Try changing a pulse waves width whilst observing it on an analyzer to get an idea, keep the filter open and see how the harmonics change. Sometimes a combination of things work best to my ears. Start of with tuning the kick and synthesizing your bass to work together as best you can, alter envelopes, think about the sequencing of the two and whether it's necessary to have kick and bass together at any time, then try things like notching out the kicks frequency a little on the bass channel. You can even duplicate the bass channel and on the duplicate track, delete all notes except those that fall on the kick and just use the notch there. Obviously delete all notes that DO fall on the kick from the original bass channel.

[Camel]

v2 sounds good to me! What helped me out a lot, is making use of reference tracks. Load up one or two professionally mastered tracks that are similar soundwise, set them up so they are about the same overall loudness, and start a/b'ing in order to get the right balance of things. This helped me out a lot, even when my monitoring setup wasn't up to par.

[mehta]

Listening back again, I like the kick/bass groove/relationship more in the 1st version, but the other elements are mixed better in the 2nd. Just my opinion though.

[Toloache]

If you have a busy bassline, avoid having too much decay on your kick. You just don't need it if the bass is providing all the low end. A long 808 kick and sustained bass notes is going to cause issues. Not saying that's what you're doing but I'm just stating the obvious...

Yeah usually i like my kick to decay for more or less 1,5-2/16, i find this a pleasing ratio of kick to other sounds that leave plenty of space around it, so i end up without all the 808 boom

Also, when you say you don't like 'bass over 100hz at the fundamental' I'm not sure if you mean you are wanting to keep bass in the sub range with little or no upper frequency activity. In other words, if you are using a sine wave type bass in the assumption it with provide 'sub bass', you can be left with no upper bass in the frequency spectrum, it's hard for the ear to make out any note information, it can appear as though your track is 'bass-light' on domestic hi fi's which cut off at say 80hz or so and as you compensate, the tendency is to just increase the gain and then when you hear it through a speaker system with an extended low end, you can't hear sh!t else but bass.

Basically, i really like the interplay beetween 808 and a good sub bass on a good club system, so i try to go after that sound, but fail to get it defined and not muddy. Usually for kick sub relation i listen with my headphones, they go lower than my monitors and i can hear it pretty well. I don't really use much the monitors for bass decisions because they stop more or less at 60 hz.

Try making bass sounds from harmonically richer source sounds. By starting out with a full rich sound like a pulse or a saw wave, you can just use a LP filter and your envelopes to remove higher frequency content and shape it to get a low sub-type bass whilst keeping upper end bass activity. You'll feel the really low frequencies but the upper bass end will provide definition and clarity. You'll get a much fuller bass this way rather than trying to overload the very low end.

There's plenty of threads on here where frequencies are discussed too, tuning kicks, etc and paying attention to the frequencies and harmonics esp. in the low end. But also, an obvious thing to try out is a notch eq. Solo your kickdrum and stick an analyzer on it. Note the main peaking frequency, lets say for arguments sake it's 50 hz. Stick and eq on the bass channel and sweep the frequency until you're at 50hz and shorten the q width as much as it will go, then start taking a few db's out of the bass at the kicks frequency. Experiment with the q width and reduction amount and see how they work.

Yeah, on the first mix there is an eq automation on the bass note that play at the same time with the kick, something like a -8 db at 50 hz on a sidechain fashion, to make the 808 play the fundamental and bass giving the overtones, but it doesn't give too much definition

Of course, you can also synthesize bass so that there's no clashing fundamental with your kick, pulse waves are good here as the width of the pulse width will alter it's harmonic content. Try changing a pulse waves width whilst observing it on an analyzer to get an idea, keep the filter open and see how the harmonics change. Sometimes a combination of things work best to my ears.

This is an interesting concept. I've read this is how steevio does his basses. In other words if you find the right pulse rate, you make sort of a hole where the kick sit right? Basically removing the need of an eq. Have to try this! Thanks for reminding me

Of course, you can also synthesize bass so that there's no clashing fundamental with your kick, pulse waves are good here as the width of the pulse width will alter it's harmonic content. Try changing a pulse waves width whilst observing it on an analyzer to get an idea, keep the filter open and see how the harmonics change. Sometimes a combination of things work best to my ears.

I think this is what i will do, stick some tune on a channel and try to get a similar balance.

Listening back again, I like the kick/bass groove/relationship more in the 1st version, but the other elements are mixed better in the 2nd. Just my opinion though.

Yeah, that's the 808 for you in the second mix trying to get definition i changed it for a 909 and opened up the filter and the envelopes on the bass. More in your face for sure but on a second thought maybe too much in your face for the mellow mood of the track. I will try to make it work with the 808 again!

Thanks guys, the feedback is really appreciated!