chord / synth help...

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tone-def
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by tone-def »

Just be patent, music theory takes time to learn. The more time you put into it now, the more productive you will be in a year or two.
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cloutier
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by cloutier »

a lot of this stems from having been blessed with the instant gratification of vinyl for the last 17yrs of my life. but the other side of it is that i've got idea's for days constantly floating around in my head, but getting them to come out of the speakers is a serious burden and annoyance for me, so it bogs me down, frustrates me, and inevitably gets me worked up.

i appreciate all the help! going to do some sort of chord / scale training each day, as well as just keep dickin' around with things and hope for a happy accident to fall in to my lap. deadlines!!
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steevio
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by steevio »

i had a great piece of software on my studio PC which was great for working out chords, but i just had to re-install Windows, so ive lost it, and cant remember what it was called, if i can work it out i'll post it up.
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by steevio »

this is similar to the one i was using, not quite as good,

http://www.ab-tools.com/en/software/pianochords/
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by AK »

cloutier wrote:
AK wrote:This might be of use: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

Chords on the left and scales on the right.

I was gonna type something quite long but I decided not to as I didn't know what your grasp on terminology was like. Could I ask what your understanding of the major scale is? :)
found that page ages ago but the sound samples never load.

as for my understanding of the major scale...i can spell "major scale." that's about it.


what i'm trying to say is i don't have all fcking day to sit and play all of these chord variations by myself, ping-ponging between a website and ableton. if i can just have a website that plays them and i can quickly go through them, i'd be gold.
You don't need to play or listen to all these variations or anything like that. For example, a minor chord is a minor chord, it doesn't matter if the root note of that chord is a 'C', a 'G' or whatever, the intervals that comprise it are fixed ( a root note, a flattened third note and a fifth ) the chord shape remains constant wherever you make it on the keyboard so listening to say a minor chord on every note on the keyboard is pointless.

Here's some formulas for chords which you can use using any root note on the keyboard:

Lets say you want a Cm ( C minor chord ) Press the root note, count up 3 semitones and you arrive at E flat ( Eb/D# ) count up 4 semitones from that and you arrive at 'G'. C/Eb/G = Cm chord and the formula was Root+3+4.

So now you know that in order to make any minor chord, you use the formula R+3+4

Here's some more of the most common chords to try out using the same formula:

( Major & Minor Chords )

1. Major Triad = R+4+3
2. Minor Triad = R+3+4
3. Major 7th = R+4+3+4
4. Minor 7th = R+3+4+3
5. Major 9th = R+4+3+4+3
6. Minor 9th = R+3+4+3+4
7. Major 11th = R+4+3+4+3+3
8. Minor 11th = R+3+4+3+4+3
9. Major 13th = R+4+3+4+3+3+4
10.Minor 13th = R+3+4+3+4+3+4


--------------------------------

( Sus Chords & Diminished chords )

1. Sus2 chord = R+2+5
2. Sus4 chord = R+5+2
3. 7Sus4 chord= R+5+2+3
4. Sus4(b9) = R+5+2+6
5. Dim chord = R+3+3
6. Dim7 chord = R+3+3+3

There's obviously lots more but the most often used chords are of the major and minor type. Try some major7th and major9th and minor7th and minor9th chords and you'll recognise those chords a lot from tons of records.

In some of the bigger chords like 9ths, 11ths & 13ths, you don't have to voice all of the notes, for example, say you played a Cm11 chord which comprises these notes: C/Eb/G/Bb/D/F, you can omit the 5th and the 9th and imply the 11th and voice the chord like this: C/Eb/F/Bb. Basically, once you start experimenting with larger chords, the way you can phrase them increases too.

You could find and play any chord you like if you simply learn the major scale, because by learning it, you also learn whats called modes - essentially scales made up from within the major scale, just starting on different notes and thus creating a different pattern of whole steps and half steps. Also, you learn intervals and intervals are what make up chords, a series of intervals stacked ontop of each other. Believe me, everything you need to know is hidden away in the very thing you don't wish to look at. Once you grasp it, everything above and beyond that will automatically make sense like other more obscure chords, the harmonic minor scale and its modes, all of it will make sense because it's all based around the same thing just an extention thereof. :)

Nobody is saying you have to study music or anything, theory is just a language that musicians use to communicate with other musicians, it's not about that, it's about internalization. There are many people who write great music but aren't theory buffs, but that doesn't mean they don't understand music. It seems far more complicated than it actually is when talking about it.

You could take a look at this but too be honest, it can get a little OTT with this kind of thing http://chordmaps.com/
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by cloutier »

see...that's the kind of to-the-point info i need. :) thank you!

i'm also trying to find some really good operator tutorials, since that's probably what i really need to get what i'm hearing in my head to actually happen.
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by oblioblioblio »

FM is a piece of piss, but the digital implementation is very very complicated.

Start out with the most basic patch, one modulator and one carrier. (one block on top of another)

Don't use the filter to start with. FM synthesis was designed so that all timbral modulation can be done without a filter. Use the filter later once you know how the FM works.

Then just fck around with the relationship between the pitch of the carrier oscillator (i.e. what note you play on the key) and the pitch of the modulation oscillator. Change the ratio of the mod osc, and change the level that it is applied to the carrier osc.

Then try using an envelope. And then once you have this move on to using more tetris pieces/combinations.

TBH, FM probably wont give you the sounds that you are after if you have specific synth sounds in mind like chord stabs, and it will take a lot of practice to get what you want out of it, but there is a lot to be found in it's intricacies.
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Re: chord / synth help...

Post by AK »

I was trying to find a basic & logical explanation of the major scale and what it means but everything I came across makes it sound too friggin complex when in essence, it's really very simple so I'm gonna post on it myself.

It's an easy thing to grasp. I can't stress how valuable this would be for you so take some time with it because everything else will fall into place after and you'll look back wondering why the fck you were ever confused in the first place.

( Not going to go into what a musical scale is, see more on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_%28music%29 )

Major scale = a series of a pattern of intervals or whole steps and half steps that then form a musical scale

The pattern for a major scale is this ( where 'W' = a whole step and 'H' = a half step )

W,W,H,W,W,W,H - this pattern of whole steps and half steps is the pattern for the Major scale. Choose a root note to start off from and follow that pattern to create it.

So if we choose 'C' as our root note for example, we count up a whole step to 'D' ( missing out C# as that would be a half step ) a whole step to E, a half step to F, a whole step to G, a whole step to A, a whole step to B and a half step to C again. that completes the octave and gives us the C major scale C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C.

Now in western music, we have what's called a diatonic chord built on each degree of that scale. ( a degree being each note within it and diatonic essentially meaning, made from the notes within the scale )

In C major, we have these chords: ( you can use the chord patterns, ie: R+4+3 in my previous post to make them but I'll write them too )

1. CMaj ( C/E/G )
2. Dmin ( D/F/A )
3. Emin ( E/G/B )
4. FMaj ( F/A/C )
5. GMaj ( G/B/D )
6. Amin ( A/C/E )
7. Bdim ( B/D/F )

So now you have the pattern of whole steps and half steps for a major scale and now you have a pattern of diatonic chords for the major scale and that's this: Maj,min,min,Maj,Maj,min,Dim.

Like I say, it's irrelevant what note you begin the major scale on, the formulas remain the same. Start on an 'F' note and it's just the name of the first chord that changes to FMaj etc etc.

Right ok, that's that bit. Going back to the degrees of the major scale, on each degree of the scale, you have what's called a mode. Best to just think of a mode as a scale within a scale.

Instead of going from C to C, now go from D to D, that's what's called the D Dorian mode.
E to E is the E Phyrgian mode
F to F is the F Lydian mode
G to G is the G Mixolydian mode
A to A is the A Aeolian mode ( also Natural minor )
B to B is the B Locrian mode

If we look back to the 'C' major scale again and add the pattern of whole steps and half steps under each note we have this:

C D E F G A B C
R W W H W W W H

Now notice, if you start on 'D' instead of 'C' a different pattern of whole steps and half steps emerges, start on 'E' and another pattern emerges etc etc. Also, so does pattern of diatonic chords too.

Remembering the diatonic chords for the major scale were: Maj, min, min, Maj, Maj, min, dim, if we start on the second degree and create the Dorian mode, our root chord is now a min chord not a major one, the 1st diatonic chord in the scale indicates whether the scale is major or minor, so we can see within these modes of the major scale that we can build 3 minor 'scales' as the 2nd degree, the 3rd degree and the 6th degree, all have minor chords built on them.

It doesn't seem like much but starting the major scale along one of its degrees creates an entirely different feel and sound, each mode is different to the next, play all notes from B to B ( Locrian mode ) and it's darker than C to C, play the diatonic chords through the scales to get a feel for them and how those modes sound.

Try experimenting with the Aeolian mode ( natural minor ) in 'C' major, that's just the white notes from A to A. See how many chords you can form using those formulas just using white notes. Maybe play an Am9 chord ( A/C/E/G/B ) and harmonize it with a bass pattern made up of various notes from that chord, maybe a low A, a higher A, a low E a higher E etc, before changing the chord to say an Em7 ( E/G/B/D ) does the bass still work with it? Does the A in the bass want to move to the B? Does the E in the bass want to remain on E?

Anyway, you got a shitload of possibilities there alone, you have all the diatonic chords in the major scale and its modes, the formulas for adding extentions to basic triad chords, the patterns of whole steps and half steps to construct various scales and by jamming with them you should get a feel for them as you go along.

If you stick with C major, you should find it easier to play as all those modes are built on just white keys, but once you find chords and melodies etc and feel comfortable, don't be afraid to throw in a few black notes to see how the tension/dissonance adds or takes away from the music.
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