The 4 minute curse!

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Harry
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The 4 minute curse!

Post by Harry »

I have been producing for about 3 years now, going through a variety of sounds and styles, all on Apples Logic software.

In the past year or so I have begun to make music I'm actually happy with and feel like I know what im doing a bit, but one problem i keep coming across is that i tend to get stuck after 4 minutes.

I'm making music around 122 - 128 bpm, so 4 minutes is generally enough for an intro and first section, then break and into the main groove. But after building up to this main groove i never know where to go, how to keep my track interesting and flowing. Because of this i tend to just sit and work on the sounds i have in the first 4 minutes for way too long, and inevitably end up hating what i've made.

Has anyone got any advice working past this? Maybe just tips and tricks that you guys do to keep things fresh and not get too stuck on a beat?

Thanks in advance, peace!
oblioblioblio
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by oblioblioblio »

One thing that I personally believe, is that no music is perfect. As a musician you always strive for perfection, but perhaps you should celebrate what you're good at rather than finding fault in what makes you different from everybody else.

It's no reason to not grow and change, but maybe making 4 minute tracks is what you're good at? As for me, I'm good at making 40 minute tracks which only subtly evolve at a rate of about 1 every 6 months. Of course I feel terribly guilty about being so talentless that I can't make fast changes, or make ordinary techno music. But every once in a while I think, fck it, this is my niche, I should just do what comes naturally.
steevio
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by steevio »

hi harry,
dont worry its a common problem.

i would say try not to arrange the track as an intro / first section / main groove etc..

just work on the main groove and concentrate on how you can make it evolve. the intro/ first section should be easy, you should be able to come up with something by simple subtraction from the main groove.

so try starting with the main body of the tune, then the intro and outro should design themselves.

i work like many people these days by improvisation. Try to get as many parameters as you can on your control surface, so that you can morph things around while the main groove is playing, and if you run out of hands and fingers, use LFOs and envelopes to change parameters to keep things interesting.

i hope thats some help mate.
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by mr lee »

^^ this.

jam out till you actually make something you like and can stand to listen to for more than 20min.

jam = create loops and patterns with drums till it clicks, something basic, something that works, don't reinvent the wheel here.
layer chords, basslines, and fx over it as needed... make a melody... make chord progressions.

once your happy... take out everything that doesn't belong in the track.

take a break because your ears probably have fatigue.

rinse, repeat as many times as needed.

...then sequence.
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by Barfunkel »

If you start hating the loop, the loop probably wasn't that great to begin with. There's tons of classic techno out there that's basically just a single loop that goes on for 6 minutes with a few mutes and filter cutoff modulation (Groove La Chord for example).

My personal goal is to be able to make really great loops. I don't care much about change, I want to create a loop so great and hypnotic that you simply won't get bored with it. Not an easy task!
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by oblioblioblio »

I find that a balance between repetition and changes is a very delicate and subtle one, especially in techno and other forms of meditative music.

I get turned off really really quickly if I hear a very static loop, or a static loop with quite forced changes. I find that music comes alive with a balance of subtle modulation and meaningful evolution.

In my earlier work I used a timeline for arrangement, and that meant quite forced changes, with planned structure which can take the life out of music, and lead to very constant ideas, like intros, outros, breakdowns, chord changes, and my tracks followed a very predictable pattern.

Like Steevio mentioned, it can be great to keep these things in the moment through use of controllers, so all your changes come from instinct rather than sketching out the ideas, and then forcing changes to fit into this already made structure.

But I would agree that a good loop is where it all begins.
steevio
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by steevio »

yes a good loop is the heart of your tune.

some of the greatest tunes of all time, and i dont just mean electronic music are just two or three notes and a simple groove. much of Miles Davis jazz stuff was simple pentatonic cell riffs, all the greatest rock tunes were 3 or 4 note riffs, techno has distilled that down to a fine art, but its a fine dividing line between greatness and boring crap.

dont just settle for the first thing you come up with. if it doesnt hypnotise you for 10 minutes when you first lay it down, its probably no good
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Re: The 4 minute curse!

Post by JonasEdenbrandt »

I have this problem as well. Like steevio points out it's very common. What I do is usually one of two things.

One would be to just try and end the track. If you can't think of anything new why not just call it done perhaps slap some kind of outro on it and then get to work with a new track. Chances are while trying to think of a way to make an outro you'll discover something that you wan't to explore further before ending the track.

The other thing would be to just start taking things out. Start with the most important things like if you have a main chord or lead, why not the bassline. Most probably theres grooves or other unexplored possibilites hiding behind those main parts. Developing these new "hidden" parts usually gets me tons of new material to work with. If you wan't to be drastic you could copy these new parts to a completly new project and try to make a new track with them just to get inspired.
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