Gain staging - sub bass

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RichardLodge
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Gain staging - sub bass

Post by RichardLodge »

Hi,

Just wanted to ask a question about sub bass levels.

Now I know obviously a mix should be done with your ears, but I'm finding getting the sub levels of my mixes difficult, I'm sure partly due to the fact that a lot of those frequencies I can't actually hear.

So... I've read that when gain staging a mix your kick should peak at roughly -10db and then your sub should be again 'roughly' 2db below that. This to my ear seams pretty bassy, and I'm finding when I add an L2 on at the end of the mix the bass is taking up all the headroom, subsequently making my mixes quiet.

I've tried various different levels, going as low as 10db below the kick but can't seem to find a solid level.

If it helps I usually use Rob Papens Sub boom bass.. the desert presets are my go to. and at the moment the Reinmann Kick Kollections.. I know there are a million other aspects but thought it might help to know.

Also I low cut my kicks at about 40hz and bass at 35hz... everything else in the mix is also low cut around 200hz usually

Any help would be great.. or does anyone else have this problem?

cheers
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by NoAffiliation »

low cutting at 30 or 40hz isn't enough. you said it yourself it's too bass heavy still. gotta go in and dip out the boom until it's tight
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Phase Ghost
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by Phase Ghost »

I'm usually closer to 4db less than the kick. Are you using an spectral analyzer at all? If not, get one. You can see exactly what's going on.
lem
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by lem »

When I played my first liveset, I forgot that I had a high-pass filter on the master buss. It was cutting anything below 100 Hz! (I'm not sure of the slope dB/oct tho, the standard ableton Eq curve if you switch on a filter)

The thing is, I didn't even notice it in the club but realised when I got home. Through the club system it sounded nicely bassy and well balanced.

Cutting 100hz at a relatively steep curve is not something I would normally do at all. I only had it on in the first place because of noise polution.
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by Torque »

RichardLodge wrote:Hi,

Just wanted to ask a question about sub bass levels.

Now I know obviously a mix should be done with your ears, but I'm finding getting the sub levels of my mixes difficult, I'm sure partly due to the fact that a lot of those frequencies I can't actually hear.

So... I've read that when gain staging a mix your kick should peak at roughly -10db and then your sub should be again 'roughly' 2db below that. This to my ear seams pretty bassy, and I'm finding when I add an L2 on at the end of the mix the bass is taking up all the headroom, subsequently making my mixes quiet.

I've tried various different levels, going as low as 10db below the kick but can't seem to find a solid level.

If it helps I usually use Rob Papens Sub boom bass.. the desert presets are my go to. and at the moment the Reinmann Kick Kollections.. I know there are a million other aspects but thought it might help to know.

Also I low cut my kicks at about 40hz and bass at 35hz... everything else in the mix is also low cut around 200hz usually

Any help would be great.. or does anyone else have this problem?

cheers
There's no reason to filter the rest of the mix at 200hz if you do that you're going to miss out on some of the harmonics that can happen when you set the rest of the mix in an acoustic space. You want your mix to be open. Also cutting your kick at 40 hz is not good either because the stuff below it can actually help push the rest of the track forward by interacting with harmonics in the higher frequencies. This is why rules for mixing low end like you stated with having the kick 2db over the sub don't ever work for electronic instruments. If you like the way the low end on a track sounds by itself then mix the rest of the track to be even with it so the bass doesn't sound too loud.
Also a question:
When you put the L2 on the track what were the settings? Because if you don't know the RMS loudness of the track before you use a limiter you could be flying blind.
RichardLodge
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by RichardLodge »

Thanks for the replies guys... really appreciated.

I will certainly try mixing my subs 4db lower than the kick.

Some conflicting views on low cuts here! From what I've read i thought it best to leave room in the low end for kick and bass, and taking out the extreme low that speakers cannot produce.

Any more views on this would be helpful.

Those who do low cut what kind of filter curve are we talking?

Cheers
RichardLodge
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by RichardLodge »

With regards to the L2 I usually just leave arc on and bring the threshold down till I get about 3db gain reduction... I will sometimes try and push a bit further but never past 6db. Are there setting to use based on the RMS of a track?
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Re: Gain staging - sub bass

Post by Mono-xID »

RichardLodge wrote:From what I've read i thought it best to leave room in the low end for kick and bass...
forget what you've read and hear what you do...you shouldn't cut everything below 200 Hz...sometimes you got a perc/synth whatever loop that will interact nicely with the low elements...when you cut every low end it sounds dry....

i can imagine you heard it gazillion times but it's true....THERE ARE NO RULES...there is no "cut this,boost that" and all that sh!t...if you can't reproduce the low end you should save some money and buy some new speakers that can...everything else is just speculation...
Last edited by Mono-xID on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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