Hardware bass synths

[cosmosuave]

DE is pretty good for bass but with only 1 EG it can be limiting

How do you figure? Sh-101 & 303 have only one EG...

[mehta]

And they are also kinda limited

I also have a DE and it's wonderful, great for all sorts of stuff ... maybe it's a bit "cold" (which I like)

Does it sound like the bassline in the OP's track is a call & response with two different synth voices?

[Kleig]

You might like the synth that starts around 1:33

I doodled the following with a simple free softsynth called EVM Bassline (http://www.kvraudio.com/product/bassline_by_evm_synths):

http://soundcloud.com/18909676a/synth

It probably sounds pretty dry, and it should, but there's a long chain of effects underneath it to make the sound what it is and there's still heaps of room for improvement.

The point is, that if you're tight on money and you really want to make complete tracks or even basslines that sound nice, I'd definitely not spend on a hardware synth first. If you don't have any good monitors, buy them instead. Or a pair of good headphones and some essential mixdown effects. If you have no way of sufficiently monitoring and mixing a beast like a hardware Moog, it's completely unnecessary to have it if you want to use it to any of its potential. It's like driving a Ferrari on a Go Kart track, when in reality you'd be having much more fun and success cruising around the country with a Go Kart that does 150 MPH.

[AK]

You might like the synth that starts around 1:33

I doodled the following with a simple free softsynth called EVM Bassline (http://www.kvraudio.com/product/bassline_by_evm_synths):

http://soundcloud.com/18909676a/synth

It probably sounds pretty dry, and it should, but there's a long chain of effects underneath it to make the sound what it is and there's still heaps of room for improvement.

The point is, that if you're tight on money and you really want to make complete tracks or even basslines that sound nice, I'd definitely not spend on a hardware synth first. If you don't have any good monitors, buy them instead. Or a pair of good headphones and some essential mixdown effects. If you have no way of sufficiently monitoring and mixing a beast like a hardware Moog, it's completely unnecessary to have it if you want to use it to any of its potential. It's like driving a Ferrari on a Go Kart track, when in reality you'd be having much more fun and success cruising around the country with a Go Kart that does 150 MPH.

I have to disagree. Y'see, I was doing that, hunting around for a solid bottom end, EQ, compression - whatever. I had a few bits of hardware but nothing really with any bollox. My Novation Super Bass Station for example, isn't that 'super' at bass. The envelopes suck. I bought a Roland SH-101 off Gumtree for £435 ( I think ) and I kinda knew what I was lacking beforehand. A decent analog synth is gonna give you a pure tone, it's not numbers or samples waveforms. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of digital/VA too, but it has its octave ranges and I just don't feel it at either the top or low end. Not at all. The 101 is my fav toy at the mo, I don't need top end monitors to 'mix' it, it does what it does. It's a synth that lacks velocity sensitivity, so no need to compress it at the source, it sounds deep as you like so no need to be adding eq either.

Like I say, I have nothing against software, I just think it sucks for low end and top end stuff.

[Hades]

The point is, that if you're tight on money and you really want to make complete tracks or even basslines that sound nice, I'd definitely not spend on a hardware synth first. If you don't have any good monitors, buy them instead. Or a pair of good headphones and some essential mixdown effects. If you have no way of sufficiently monitoring and mixing a beast like a hardware Moog, it's completely unnecessary to have it if you want to use it to any of its potential. It's like driving a Ferrari on a Go Kart track, when in reality you'd be having much more fun and success cruising around the country with a Go Kart that does 150 MPH.

I defintely think this is a good point. (and I like the car comparison)
It's just that many never believe this untill they have found it out themselves by trial and error.
It's the same with the idea that you will probably benefit a lot more from learning your sound design better than by buying synth A or B. (and this is especially the case if you already have quite a few synths)
A lot of people just won't bother to learn their sound design properly and prefer to just get tons of gear, thinking that getting synth A or B will automatically make their tracks massively better.

[Kleig]

You might like the synth that starts around 1:33

I doodled the following with a simple free softsynth called EVM Bassline (http://www.kvraudio.com/product/bassline_by_evm_synths):

http://soundcloud.com/18909676a/synth

It probably sounds pretty dry, and it should, but there's a long chain of effects underneath it to make the sound what it is and there's still heaps of room for improvement.

The point is, that if you're tight on money and you really want to make complete tracks or even basslines that sound nice, I'd definitely not spend on a hardware synth first. If you don't have any good monitors, buy them instead. Or a pair of good headphones and some essential mixdown effects. If you have no way of sufficiently monitoring and mixing a beast like a hardware Moog, it's completely unnecessary to have it if you want to use it to any of its potential. It's like driving a Ferrari on a Go Kart track, when in reality you'd be having much more fun and success cruising around the country with a Go Kart that does 150 MPH.

I have to disagree. Y'see, I was doing that, hunting around for a solid bottom end, EQ, compression - whatever. I had a few bits of hardware but nothing really with any bollox. My Novation Super Bass Station for example, isn't that 'super' at bass. The envelopes suck. I bought a Roland SH-101 off Gumtree for £435 ( I think ) and I kinda knew what I was lacking beforehand. A decent analog synth is gonna give you a pure tone, it's not numbers or samples waveforms. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of digital/VA too, but it has its octave ranges and I just don't feel it at either the top or low end. Not at all. The 101 is my fav toy at the mo, I don't need top end monitors to 'mix' it, it does what it does. It's a synth that lacks velocity sensitivity, so no need to compress it at the source, it sounds deep as you like so no need to be adding eq either.

Like I say, I have nothing against software, I just think it sucks for low end and top end stuff.

That's completely true, but I think we have different motivations behind our points. Your point is what kind of synth is capable of instantly creating a good, hefty bass wave and my point is to help him to make a better track. I wasn't talking about mixing the bass sound itself, I was talking about mixing it in with the whole of the track. I'm not talking about top end monitors either, I'm talking about monitors you can afford with the price of a Slim Phatty.

Lunarodyssey definitely shouldn't go hunting for anything, including effects. He should be making music. I advised him to buy a few essential effects needed to do a solid mixdown, not for bass only, but for the whole track. You don't need decent monitors to create the most mind blowing music, but they help you to see the problem you're facing more clearly. There's absolutely no magic in any plugin or hardware, they're tools and crutches you use to get where you want to with the track. Hunting for the best possible effects is the exactly same devil I'd want everyone to avoid. That is, trying to find the answers to the current musical problem we face from anywhere but within our own brains. Loads of hobbyist musicians get stuck in a place where they have surrounded themselves with lots of amazing hardware synths and stuff like that, but rarely get anything done. They still face the same musical problems they faced a year ago when they open up the synth and tweak about with it. That's because they are turning their face away from the real problem, which you couldn't solve with all the hardware in the world.

For me, it works the other way around: The less variables I have to work with, the easier and more creative the process becomes. The differences between all of the synths mentioned in this thread don't matter one bit when you compare that to the difference a good arrangement makes. You could give any single one of them to Marcel Dettmann and he'd figure out a way to make it a part of something amazing after a while.

[Hades]

I have to disagree. Y'see, I was doing that, hunting around for a solid bottom end, EQ, compression - whatever. I had a few bits of hardware but nothing really with any bollox. My Novation Super Bass Station for example, isn't that 'super' at bass. The envelopes suck. I bought a Roland SH-101 off Gumtree for £435 ( I think ) and I kinda knew what I was lacking beforehand. A decent analog synth is gonna give you a pure tone, it's not numbers or samples waveforms. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of digital/VA too, but it has its octave ranges and I just don't feel it at either the top or low end. Not at all. The 101 is my fav toy at the mo, I don't need top end monitors to 'mix' it, it does what it does. It's a synth that lacks velocity sensitivity, so no need to compress it at the source, it sounds deep as you like so no need to be adding eq either.

Like I say, I have nothing against software, I just think it sucks for low end and top end stuff.

This is only partly true.
It really depends on the software you use, and which outboard gear you run it through (soundcard, monitors, mixer,...).
About 5 years ago, I would have definitely agreed with you, but nowadays there are quite a few softsynths out there that are great for low and top end stuff.
You should hear Omnisphere, for instance.
For example : in their massive preset library, they've copied quite a few legendary presets from legendary synths, one of them being "Soundtrack" from the JX10.
I have a JX10 here, with the preset on it, and if I compare both A/B, there's maybe a 5% difference which you won't hear anymore once the sound is recorded or used in a complete track. (in case, you want to imagine how the preset sounds : think about the track "fred's world" by angelo badalamenti in "Lost Highway", it's almost completely the same sound)
On the other hand, one of the other famous synths they used to build their library was the K5000, and they also reproduced a preset called "creaturz". I also happen to have a K5000 in here and with that one there's quite a bite more difference, although the K5000 is a fully digital synth.
It's additive though, which is quite hard if not impossible to copy with any other form of synthesis.

Anyways, I'm just giving the first 2 short examples I can think of here. I'm just saying it's nowadays not necessary to have real analog to get good bottom end or top end. If you get the right softsynths, and have proper outboard gear, you can most definitely get there. (and I'm only saying this because I've experienced it myself with having all kinds of synths in here, hardware and software, using all kinds of synthesis methods (RA, VA, FM, additive, granular, wavetable, rompler,...) )

I do agree with the fact that you're in for a feast if you buy something like a moog and only had mediocre hardware or software synths before, like you said you experienced when getting an SH101 after having stuff like a novation synth.

[Hades]

I was typing my reply when you made yours, kleig,
but very well put !