modular synthesis

Phase Ghost · Post by **Phase Ghost** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:59 pm

Okay, my brain hurts from reading modular stuff non stop. I was going to buy a DRM-1 mk3, but I think I'm gonna start a modular kit instead.

Steevio, if you have a minute or even get to read this, I have a few questions on integrating a modular setup to my current setup. I searched the muffwiggler forum but didn't find what I was looking for..completely.

Currently, I use logic to sequence a few hardware synths and a sampler, along with software samplers, drum machines, etc. Pretty typical setup. After reading your last post and some posts on muffwiggler, I'm pretty convinced I need a hardware sequencer to go with a modular setup. However, I have no idea how hardware sequencers work. Would I have to limit my Logic tracks to 8 or 16 steps? Plus would the modular clock have to be used instead of Logic's? I hope not, but I could deal with it if I could still layout the tracks without resorting to 8/16 steps. Hopefully, this isn't too lengthy of a answer. Thanks

oblioblioblio · Post by **oblioblioblio** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:10 pm

i think a general rule with modular is 'where there's a will there's a way'.. it just depends how much of a pain in the arse it is. (sorry, 2 very english expressions... hopefully they translate ok)

i think there will be a way to sync an analogue sequencer to a midi clock output from logic. or maybe to slave logic to a clock signal from a voltage. i can't see why in either situation you'd need to restrict logic to only 8 or 16 steps, but then I don't really know Logic that well.

Sorry I can't be more specific cos I don't really know, but I really think it's possible to solve most problems like that, it just depepnds how much effort is required, and factoring in the possiblity of finding a much neater solution along the way (i.e. maybe it's too much effort and it's just easer to use an all analogue sequencing set up or something)

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:38 pm

Phase Ghost wrote:Okay, my brain hurts from reading modular stuff non stop. I was going to buy a DRM-1 mk3, but I think I'm gonna start a modular kit instead.

Steevio, if you have a minute or even get to read this, I have a few questions on integrating a modular setup to my current setup. I searched the muffwiggler forum but didn't find what I was looking for..completely.

Currently, I use logic to sequence a few hardware synths and a sampler, along with software samplers, drum machines, etc. Pretty typical setup. After reading your last post and some posts on muffwiggler, I'm pretty convinced I need a hardware sequencer to go with a modular setup. However, I have no idea how hardware sequencers work. Would I have to limit my Logic tracks to 8 or 16 steps? Plus would the modular clock have to be used instead of Logic's? I hope not, but I could deal with it if I could still layout the tracks without resorting to 8/16 steps. Hopefully, this isn't too lengthy of a answer. Thanks

to start with you could do what i did and just sequence it from logic, but youre going to need a midi/cv convertor.
the kenton pro2 i used as a little too limited for me, it only has two channels, although you can increase the potential by sending one sequence down each channel as CV's / triggers and gates plus by manipulating the velocities of the notes and sending them out of the auxilliaries as velocity to CV, you effectively get an extra two patterns.
that might sound a bit complicated but it isnt if you get your head around it.
better still get a midi/cV convertor with more outputs, theres quite a few on the market.
or you get VOLTA software for your mac, then its easy.

the thing about the 8/16 step thing is not what you think.
at first i was convinced it was going to be limited, because i work mostly with polyrhythms, so an 8 step sequencer is really not the right thing, basically like you i didnt know really how they worked ( they are all different by the way, so you have to check each one out )
however i soon realised that as long as your sequencer has CV and trigger inputs and reset options, and you have auxilliary modules which can expand the clock and rhythmic possibilities, your'e sorted.
infact more than sorted, you stop thinking in terms of linear sequences altogether, and you get way more complex and interesting sequences than you would with a typical software sequencer.
then it becomes an advantage to have a simple 8 step at the core so you can start with something minimal, then branch it out into what ever you want.
the A155 is great but it becomes even more powerful when you add the A154, which means you can run pendulum, reverse, step manipulated sequences etc etc. switch between them, retrigger them etc etc
the thing about modular for me, is it isnt what it seems at first glance, when you start wiring things up you start having completely new ideas about what you can do that you would never have thought of, with regular EDM thinking, honestly bro i thought i knew alot about synthesizers till i got involed in this, now i realise i'm a newb, its mindblowing.

if you want to go for a modular sequencer, its easy to integrate into your logic setup as long as you have a simple (and cheap) midi/cv convertor so you can send it a clock from your mac, or you can clock both your logic and your modular from a Flame Clockwork module which also sends out midi as well as cvs and triggers.

Phase Ghost · Post by **Phase Ghost** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:05 pm

Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm sure once I get working with the system, it will click on how the sequencing works. My only concern is the size of the A-155. That's a lot of rackspace to take up. I plan on buying a 9U case, but I'm wondering if I can use a tabletop sequencer with similar functionality.

Have you seen the TipTop Z8000?
http://www.tiptopaudio.com/z8k.php

Looks to be about half the size. Not sure on how it will function though.

Either way, I'm gonna take my time building this. I'm gonna grab the bare minimum amount of modules to start with and go from there. I'm still in the homework stage though. Thanks again for the great info in this thread. [/url]

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:09 pm

Phase Ghost wrote:Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm sure once I get working with the system, it will click on how the sequencing works. My only concern is the size of the A-155. That's a lot of rackspace to take up. I plan on buying a 9U case, but I'm wondering if I can use a tabletop sequencer with similar functionality.

Have you seen the TipTop Z8000?
http://www.tiptopaudio.com/z8k.php

Looks to be about half the size. Not sure on how it will function though.

Either way, I'm gonna take my time building this. I'm gonna grab the bare minimum amount of modules to start with and go from there. I'm still in the homework stage though. Thanks again for the great info in this thread. [/url]

i have a Z8000 on order, should arrive next week, that will take my sequencing options in to hyperdrive.
i wouldnt want it as an only sequencer though because it doesnt send triggers or gates ( i think ) its CVs only.

just keep lurking on the muffwiggler forum, you'll get the drift eventually.

one word of caution, quite a few of those guys on there are making noise as opposed to minimal techno, some of their recommendations arent necessarily always relevant to more musical approaches.
for instance while its cool to have some sort of source of uncertainty (randomness / S/H, noise etc) i think one is enough for our kind of music.

some of those guys have got like 3 wogglebugs and 3 Noiserings etc.
and are making really random music.

oblioblioblio · Post by **oblioblioblio** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:23 pm

yeah most of the videos I've seen people of people using modular systems on youtube are making noise, which isn't necessarily a bad thing I suppose.

anyways I've been reading up and looking into some analogue modular components. it's very exciting. there's loads of stuff (like the Buchla inspired/cloned Make Noise Maths and QMMG) which completely crosses the boundaries of typical synth components like VCA/LFO or whatever... those modules just use voltage in their own extremely unqiue way and then it's up to you how to use it... which could be one of many things.... some of it familiar and some of it very unqiue.

i've had a bit of a software comedown the last few days... there's lots of exciting stuff but there's alot of shite also... lots of people selling the same designs with only very minor variations... and quite often geared to quite commerical applications. I'm selling almost all of it except for Max and Reaktor... those guys are still interesting and useful to me. (and I don't mean to knock all software... loads it is great and amazing and useful, just I was surpirised about how similar a lot of it is on the inside... definitely not the same level of innovation as early Buchla circuits or whatever... I can find interesting software designs for most simple synth things in the REaktor library...which i don't need an expensive plugin for)

Phase Ghost · Post by **Phase Ghost** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:53 pm

steevio wrote:
one word of caution, quite a few of those guys on there are making noise as opposed to minimal techno, some of their recommendations arent necessarily always relevant to more musical approaches.
for instance while its cool to have some sort of source of uncertainty (randomness / S/H, noise etc) i think one is enough for our kind of music.

Yeah, I've noticed that. That's why I'm trying to understand what a lot of these modules do before buying them. That's part of the problem with looking at all the systems people are building and trying to get ideas. No one says what kind of music they are making. I think some of these guys just get into the technical side of it all and that's it.

There's no reason for me to ever change tempos. 1 noise generator is more than enough. I'm not into random sh!t. I like unexpected modulations and what not, but like to be in control of it. If that makes sense.

After a little more research, I'm starting to understand why a hardware sequencer is necessary to use a modular synth to it's full potential.

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:20 pm

Phase Ghost wrote: There's no reason for me to ever change tempos. 1 noise generator is more than enough. I'm not into random sh!t. I like unexpected modulations and what not, but like to be in control of it. If that makes sense.

me too, i'm into the mathematics of music, randomness in nature isnt usually that random really, you can create events that appear random but which are actually mathematically beautiful.

After a little more research, I'm starting to understand why a hardware sequencer is necessary to use a modular synth to it's full potential.

yeah it took a while before i got it. and also why a simple sequencer is actually very powerful. if you start with something very simple, with just a few additional variations, you suddenly have something very complex, its like the mandlebrot set, where a really simple formula gives rise to infinitely beautiful fractals.

my advice ;
A155, A154, + A156 dual quantizer, A151 sequential switch, A160 clock divider + A162 trigger delay and loads of patch cords
enough sequencing to keep you going for years.

the when you can afford it another A155 or Z8000 or Makenoise Rene.

or..maybe an ASol Oberkorn

ezee