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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
There is an odd kind of danger in moving to a place like Berlin right now. From my experience it seems like allot of places in Europe seem to value novelty as much as they do talent. Right now by staying in Montreal you have both of those factors working for you. If you move to Berlin the novelty factor will be all gone in a few months then where does that leave you? I would rather fly in, rock the joint and then book the fck out. That would keep your market value higher there. So if you're basing your decision to move there on hoping for a career in techno i think you have made a miscalculation. However if you're going there for other purposes like some other sort of job and you plan to do the music on the side i think you'll probably have allot of fun.


this is great advice in my opinion. an over saturated market can be tuff unless you were there from the start. I think its better to start things up in new places where little to no scene exists. its about spreading music culture to people who've been unexposed. electronic music still travels best by djs. most clubers don't go to beatport or really research the music like djs - so to go to a town where the music you want to dj (whatever kind of stuff that is) isn't as prevalent is a good thing (having some clubs in town no matter what they play also helps). but i know people who've gone and done well and others who haven't - talent never has been the reason for either - it boils down to networking. good luck.


Thats true but i also see the other side of it. I'm in Detroit for example. Allot of people think that a place like Detroit would be a good place to go to get going in this type of music and it is to a certain degree but there are factors you have to take into consideration when coming to a place like this. People tend to think that a place where all this techno came from is a great place to be because it has a huge scene supporting it. This is the exact opposite of the way it is. The detroit scene can only at the moment support maybe one really good techno event per week (300-600 people) tops. So that means right off the bat that if you're looking to make money this is not the place to go. There are other benefits to this kind of place though. First off the surrounding are the kind of thing that will give you the blues and the blues make for great music no matter what the genre. There is allot of pain and suffering going on around you to the point where if you don't let it out of you and pour out your soul on wax you'll go nuts or become completely depressed pretty quickly. The need to get out of here drives allot of people and gives them extra motivation to make the best music possible. It's an atmosphere of intense competition. Some people don't need all this to succeed but i'm not one of them. I live to do battle and i enjoy competing so for me it's perfect.
Berlin is a different vibe. There is a massive scene out there to support you money wise so the competition that goes on is not a musical competition to get you out of Berlin, it's a competition to see who can make the most loot and that means getting bodies in that door. This is why the guys out there that have the most success are the pretty ones that look good on the flyers. There's nothing wrong with that because it's what the market there demands. You need to get the girleez in the door so the guys will follow them in and buy drinks. This is one of the reasons that the music will be so different between places like here and there because the goals of the businesses in the different towns demand different things from the djs and producers.
It basically comes down to a matter of what your musical goals are and how you think you can get there in the most efficient manner. Berlin is not bad place to go but you have to be prepared for what the local market demands. Montreal is not a bad place to be either.
For me berlin is not a good place to be a local dj at because i'm not exactly a a pretty boy that looks great on a flyer but it's perfect for me as a place where i can drop in a few times a year and tear the roof off the mthrfckr because i have the novelty of not being a local and i have the music fundamentals that come from existing in a harsh scene.
Everybody has different attributes that can help them be successful but it's always a hard decision to find the right place for a home base musically. Of course none of this matters worth a damn if you have an excellent work ethic and drive yourself towards perfection at every turn. If that's the case then it doesn't matter where the fck you go. The opportunities are always made by you in the end. The music business has nothing to do with luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:40 pm 
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mnml mmbr
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Torque wrote:
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
There is an odd kind of danger in moving to a place like Berlin right now. From my experience it seems like allot of places in Europe seem to value novelty as much as they do talent. Right now by staying in Montreal you have both of those factors working for you. If you move to Berlin the novelty factor will be all gone in a few months then where does that leave you? I would rather fly in, rock the joint and then book the fck out. That would keep your market value higher there. So if you're basing your decision to move there on hoping for a career in techno i think you have made a miscalculation. However if you're going there for other purposes like some other sort of job and you plan to do the music on the side i think you'll probably have allot of fun.


this is great advice in my opinion. an over saturated market can be tuff unless you were there from the start. I think its better to start things up in new places where little to no scene exists. its about spreading music culture to people who've been unexposed. electronic music still travels best by djs. most clubers don't go to beatport or really research the music like djs - so to go to a town where the music you want to dj (whatever kind of stuff that is) isn't as prevalent is a good thing (having some clubs in town no matter what they play also helps). but i know people who've gone and done well and others who haven't - talent never has been the reason for either - it boils down to networking. good luck.


Thats true but i also see the other side of it. I'm in Detroit for example. Allot of people think that a place like Detroit would be a good place to go to get going in this type of music and it is to a certain degree but there are factors you have to take into consideration when coming to a place like this. People tend to think that a place where all this techno came from is a great place to be because it has a huge scene supporting it. This is the exact opposite of the way it is. The detroit scene can only at the moment support maybe one really good techno event per week (300-600 people) tops. So that means right off the bat that if you're looking to make money this is not the place to go. There are other benefits to this kind of place though. First off the surrounding are the kind of thing that will give you the blues and the blues make for great music no matter what the genre. There is allot of pain and suffering going on around you to the point where if you don't let it out of you and pour out your soul on wax you'll go nuts or become completely depressed pretty quickly. The need to get out of here drives allot of people and gives them extra motivation to make the best music possible. It's an atmosphere of intense competition. Some people don't need all this to succeed but i'm not one of them. I live to do battle and i enjoy competing so for me it's perfect.
Berlin is a different vibe. There is a massive scene out there to support you money wise so the competition that goes on is not a musical competition to get you out of Berlin, it's a competition to see who can make the most loot and that means getting bodies in that door. This is why the guys out there that have the most success are the pretty ones that look good on the flyers. There's nothing wrong with that because it's what the market there demands. You need to get the girleez in the door so the guys will follow them in and buy drinks. This is one of the reasons that the music will be so different between places like here and there because the goals of the businesses in the different towns demand different things from the djs and producers.
It basically comes down to a matter of what your musical goals are and how you think you can get there in the most efficient manner. Berlin is not bad place to go but you have to be prepared for what the local market demands. Montreal is not a bad place to be either.
For me berlin is not a good place to be a local dj at because i'm not exactly a a pretty boy that looks great on a flyer but it's perfect for me as a place where i can drop in a few times a year and tear the roof off the mthrfckr because i have the novelty of not being a local and i have the music fundamentals that come from existing in a harsh scene.
Everybody has different attributes that can help them be successful but it's always a hard decision to find the right place for a home base musically. Of course none of this matters worth a damn if you have an excellent work ethic and drive yourself towards perfection at every turn. If that's the case then it doesn't matter where the fck you go. The opportunities are always made by you in the end. The music business has nothing to do with luck.


I agree with most of this except the luck part. right place right timing is part of luck. there are lots of people out there who are more talented and even made better music and may even be better djs than the ones who are noticed most but they could be in the wrong place or just have bad luck... money issues or life issues etc. I think Arthur Russel is proof of that.

_________________
www.myspace.com/measax - www.stirsound.com - www.eightyeightdc.com/88blog/


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:54 pm 
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mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr

Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 10:54 am
Posts: 460
Location: berlin
I would not (edit - oops) call the locals here to be pretty boys more than any otehr scene. Nobody ever has pictures of the people performing on the flyers aside from the terrible mainstream parties which are not even relevant to this thread. Local get gigs by networking. Many are not any good, but they network well.

Moving here does not remove any novelty very quickly. Plenty transplants here milk their exotic roots for quite some time. I htink dj rush was living here for years and years and was still listed as from chicago the last time i saw a flyer with his name on it.

However, it does make sense to visit first. Make it an extended visit if you can, but speaking from experience, moving here blindly can be fucking difficult.

oh, i forget if this has been mentioned, but getting international health insurance is a lot cheaper than getting it here (works that way for many countries based on probability of somethign goign wrong). it's also much cheaper than whatever insurance you use at home.

_________________
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:55 am 
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mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 2:26 am
Posts: 130
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
There is an odd kind of danger in moving to a place like Berlin right now. From my experience it seems like allot of places in Europe seem to value novelty as much as they do talent. Right now by staying in Montreal you have both of those factors working for you. If you move to Berlin the novelty factor will be all gone in a few months then where does that leave you? I would rather fly in, rock the joint and then book the fck out. That would keep your market value higher there. So if you're basing your decision to move there on hoping for a career in techno i think you have made a miscalculation. However if you're going there for other purposes like some other sort of job and you plan to do the music on the side i think you'll probably have allot of fun.


this is great advice in my opinion. an over saturated market can be tuff unless you were there from the start. I think its better to start things up in new places where little to no scene exists. its about spreading music culture to people who've been unexposed. electronic music still travels best by djs. most clubers don't go to beatport or really research the music like djs - so to go to a town where the music you want to dj (whatever kind of stuff that is) isn't as prevalent is a good thing (having some clubs in town no matter what they play also helps). but i know people who've gone and done well and others who haven't - talent never has been the reason for either - it boils down to networking. good luck.


Thats true but i also see the other side of it. I'm in Detroit for example. Allot of people think that a place like Detroit would be a good place to go to get going in this type of music and it is to a certain degree but there are factors you have to take into consideration when coming to a place like this. People tend to think that a place where all this techno came from is a great place to be because it has a huge scene supporting it. This is the exact opposite of the way it is. The detroit scene can only at the moment support maybe one really good techno event per week (300-600 people) tops. So that means right off the bat that if you're looking to make money this is not the place to go. There are other benefits to this kind of place though. First off the surrounding are the kind of thing that will give you the blues and the blues make for great music no matter what the genre. There is allot of pain and suffering going on around you to the point where if you don't let it out of you and pour out your soul on wax you'll go nuts or become completely depressed pretty quickly. The need to get out of here drives allot of people and gives them extra motivation to make the best music possible. It's an atmosphere of intense competition. Some people don't need all this to succeed but i'm not one of them. I live to do battle and i enjoy competing so for me it's perfect.
Berlin is a different vibe. There is a massive scene out there to support you money wise so the competition that goes on is not a musical competition to get you out of Berlin, it's a competition to see who can make the most loot and that means getting bodies in that door. This is why the guys out there that have the most success are the pretty ones that look good on the flyers. There's nothing wrong with that because it's what the market there demands. You need to get the girleez in the door so the guys will follow them in and buy drinks. This is one of the reasons that the music will be so different between places like here and there because the goals of the businesses in the different towns demand different things from the djs and producers.
It basically comes down to a matter of what your musical goals are and how you think you can get there in the most efficient manner. Berlin is not bad place to go but you have to be prepared for what the local market demands. Montreal is not a bad place to be either.
For me berlin is not a good place to be a local dj at because i'm not exactly a a pretty boy that looks great on a flyer but it's perfect for me as a place where i can drop in a few times a year and tear the roof off the mthrfckr because i have the novelty of not being a local and i have the music fundamentals that come from existing in a harsh scene.
Everybody has different attributes that can help them be successful but it's always a hard decision to find the right place for a home base musically. Of course none of this matters worth a damn if you have an excellent work ethic and drive yourself towards perfection at every turn. If that's the case then it doesn't matter where the fck you go. The opportunities are always made by you in the end. The music business has nothing to do with luck.


I agree with most of this except the luck part. right place right timing is part of luck. there are lots of people out there who are more talented and even made better music and may even be better djs than the ones who are noticed most but they could be in the wrong place or just have bad luck... money issues or life issues etc. I think Arthur Russel is proof of that.


There is nothing called luck. You create the opportunities based on choices you make.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:20 am 
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mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:58 pm
Posts: 497
JCH wrote:
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
There is an odd kind of danger in moving to a place like Berlin right now. From my experience it seems like allot of places in Europe seem to value novelty as much as they do talent. Right now by staying in Montreal you have both of those factors working for you. If you move to Berlin the novelty factor will be all gone in a few months then where does that leave you? I would rather fly in, rock the joint and then book the fck out. That would keep your market value higher there. So if you're basing your decision to move there on hoping for a career in techno i think you have made a miscalculation. However if you're going there for other purposes like some other sort of job and you plan to do the music on the side i think you'll probably have allot of fun.


this is great advice in my opinion. an over saturated market can be tuff unless you were there from the start. I think its better to start things up in new places where little to no scene exists. its about spreading music culture to people who've been unexposed. electronic music still travels best by djs. most clubers don't go to beatport or really research the music like djs - so to go to a town where the music you want to dj (whatever kind of stuff that is) isn't as prevalent is a good thing (having some clubs in town no matter what they play also helps). but i know people who've gone and done well and others who haven't - talent never has been the reason for either - it boils down to networking. good luck.


Thats true but i also see the other side of it. I'm in Detroit for example. Allot of people think that a place like Detroit would be a good place to go to get going in this type of music and it is to a certain degree but there are factors you have to take into consideration when coming to a place like this. People tend to think that a place where all this techno came from is a great place to be because it has a huge scene supporting it. This is the exact opposite of the way it is. The detroit scene can only at the moment support maybe one really good techno event per week (300-600 people) tops. So that means right off the bat that if you're looking to make money this is not the place to go. There are other benefits to this kind of place though. First off the surrounding are the kind of thing that will give you the blues and the blues make for great music no matter what the genre. There is allot of pain and suffering going on around you to the point where if you don't let it out of you and pour out your soul on wax you'll go nuts or become completely depressed pretty quickly. The need to get out of here drives allot of people and gives them extra motivation to make the best music possible. It's an atmosphere of intense competition. Some people don't need all this to succeed but i'm not one of them. I live to do battle and i enjoy competing so for me it's perfect.
Berlin is a different vibe. There is a massive scene out there to support you money wise so the competition that goes on is not a musical competition to get you out of Berlin, it's a competition to see who can make the most loot and that means getting bodies in that door. This is why the guys out there that have the most success are the pretty ones that look good on the flyers. There's nothing wrong with that because it's what the market there demands. You need to get the girleez in the door so the guys will follow them in and buy drinks. This is one of the reasons that the music will be so different between places like here and there because the goals of the businesses in the different towns demand different things from the djs and producers.
It basically comes down to a matter of what your musical goals are and how you think you can get there in the most efficient manner. Berlin is not bad place to go but you have to be prepared for what the local market demands. Montreal is not a bad place to be either.
For me berlin is not a good place to be a local dj at because i'm not exactly a a pretty boy that looks great on a flyer but it's perfect for me as a place where i can drop in a few times a year and tear the roof off the mthrfckr because i have the novelty of not being a local and i have the music fundamentals that come from existing in a harsh scene.
Everybody has different attributes that can help them be successful but it's always a hard decision to find the right place for a home base musically. Of course none of this matters worth a damn if you have an excellent work ethic and drive yourself towards perfection at every turn. If that's the case then it doesn't matter where the fck you go. The opportunities are always made by you in the end. The music business has nothing to do with luck.


I agree with most of this except the luck part. right place right timing is part of luck. there are lots of people out there who are more talented and even made better music and may even be better djs than the ones who are noticed most but they could be in the wrong place or just have bad luck... money issues or life issues etc. I think Arthur Russel is proof of that.


There is nothing called luck. You create the opportunities based on choices you make.


well, this is a thing of opinion in some ways because we could spend a lot of time mincing words and getting into semantics but I believe in luck generally. Sometimes things work out to go against what probability would suggest. Besides, to think otherwise would be to subscribe to determinism as the end all be all truth of the world and it just isn't so. Somethings are simply out of our control.

_________________
www.myspace.com/measax - www.stirsound.com - www.eightyeightdc.com/88blog/


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:34 pm 
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mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:44 am
Posts: 111
Location: Berlin
Der geile Ami wrote:
oh, i forget if this has been mentioned, but getting international health insurance is a lot cheaper than getting it here (works that way for many countries based on probability of somethign goign wrong). it's also much cheaper than whatever insurance you use at home.


Excellent point.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:45 am 
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mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:29 am
Posts: 233
Location: Wales, UK
)
steevio wrote:
everybody move to wales, cheapest part of the UK, good music, mountains, fresh air, cool creative people, very little crime,
best techno and house scene in europe !!!!!!!
lots of sheep !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Steevio try living in Merthyr, its cheap but its cheap for a reason. Its definately not a cosmopolitan hive of creativity (although I do live there 8) ;) )

The sheep are definately a bonus tho if your into that sort of thing :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:46 pm 
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mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 341
Location: Madrid
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
Measax wrote:
Torque wrote:
There is an odd kind of danger in moving to a place like Berlin right now. From my experience it seems like allot of places in Europe seem to value novelty as much as they do talent. Right now by staying in Montreal you have both of those factors working for you. If you move to Berlin the novelty factor will be all gone in a few months then where does that leave you? I would rather fly in, rock the joint and then book the fck out. That would keep your market value higher there. So if you're basing your decision to move there on hoping for a career in techno i think you have made a miscalculation. However if you're going there for other purposes like some other sort of job and you plan to do the music on the side i think you'll probably have allot of fun.


this is great advice in my opinion. an over saturated market can be tuff unless you were there from the start. I think its better to start things up in new places where little to no scene exists. its about spreading music culture to people who've been unexposed. electronic music still travels best by djs. most clubers don't go to beatport or really research the music like djs - so to go to a town where the music you want to dj (whatever kind of stuff that is) isn't as prevalent is a good thing (having some clubs in town no matter what they play also helps). but i know people who've gone and done well and others who haven't - talent never has been the reason for either - it boils down to networking. good luck.


Thats true but i also see the other side of it. I'm in Detroit for example. Allot of people think that a place like Detroit would be a good place to go to get going in this type of music and it is to a certain degree but there are factors you have to take into consideration when coming to a place like this. People tend to think that a place where all this techno came from is a great place to be because it has a huge scene supporting it. This is the exact opposite of the way it is. The detroit scene can only at the moment support maybe one really good techno event per week (300-600 people) tops. So that means right off the bat that if you're looking to make money this is not the place to go. There are other benefits to this kind of place though. First off the surrounding are the kind of thing that will give you the blues and the blues make for great music no matter what the genre. There is allot of pain and suffering going on around you to the point where if you don't let it out of you and pour out your soul on wax you'll go nuts or become completely depressed pretty quickly. The need to get out of here drives allot of people and gives them extra motivation to make the best music possible. It's an atmosphere of intense competition. Some people don't need all this to succeed but i'm not one of them. I live to do battle and i enjoy competing so for me it's perfect.
Berlin is a different vibe. There is a massive scene out there to support you money wise so the competition that goes on is not a musical competition to get you out of Berlin, it's a competition to see who can make the most loot and that means getting bodies in that door. This is why the guys out there that have the most success are the pretty ones that look good on the flyers. There's nothing wrong with that because it's what the market there demands. You need to get the girleez in the door so the guys will follow them in and buy drinks. This is one of the reasons that the music will be so different between places like here and there because the goals of the businesses in the different towns demand different things from the djs and producers.
It basically comes down to a matter of what your musical goals are and how you think you can get there in the most efficient manner. Berlin is not bad place to go but you have to be prepared for what the local market demands. Montreal is not a bad place to be either.
For me berlin is not a good place to be a local dj at because i'm not exactly a a pretty boy that looks great on a flyer but it's perfect for me as a place where i can drop in a few times a year and tear the roof off the mthrfckr because i have the novelty of not being a local and i have the music fundamentals that come from existing in a harsh scene.
Everybody has different attributes that can help them be successful but it's always a hard decision to find the right place for a home base musically. Of course none of this matters worth a damn if you have an excellent work ethic and drive yourself towards perfection at every turn. If that's the case then it doesn't matter where the fck you go. The opportunities are always made by you in the end. The music business has nothing to do with luck.


I agree with most of this except the luck part. right place right timing is part of luck. there are lots of people out there who are more talented and even made better music and may even be better djs than the ones who are noticed most but they could be in the wrong place or just have bad luck... money issues or life issues etc. I think Arthur Russel is proof of that.


:arrow: Thia is really interesting conversation here. i am planing to move to berlin also, now these gives me a diferent perspective. Everybody here can be right about what they are saying, it seems to me that it is all personal experience and opinions from each one....i say to this guy to listen to everyting and listen to nothing at the end it comes to you, you need luck, yes...talent, of course...everything is relative....i say things wont come to you, you have to go for them....if you want it so bad, go and live the experience for yourself...dont ask yourself when you become old "what if i would have gone to berlin?"


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