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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:53 pm 
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mnml mdrtr
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EricBrandy wrote:
Robot criminal, your (great) track shows a polyrhytm focused on one basic 4/4 frame, mains that the beat turns inside the 4/4 only.


hehe thanks for the (great) :P
(i know its sht basic)
though this got me going more difficult, with metre changes and stuff. Just didn't had the head to wrap around it before :D

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:20 pm 
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mnml maxi
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skept wrote:
actually... as i continue reading it says "that they both take the same amount of time"... that makes me think that i am not talking about polyrhythms. what i am talking about is putting a 3 beat pattern over a 4 beat pattern. 4 beats for the kick and snare. then the 3 beat pattern will be some hats. both the same bpm so the 4 beat pattern is obviously longer and the 3 beat pattern loops faster. is this a polyrhythm or not?


I don't think that it's technically a polyrhythm, but it sure as sh!t is a cool thing to be doing.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:46 am 
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mnml maxi
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i' glad my talk of polyrhythms had some effect, thanks plaster !!
i've based my whole style around polyrhythms since my first actual techno vinyl release ( Nutmeg by 3000003, Roost Records 1994 )
i was using 5 TB303's, hence the name 3000003, 3 live and 2 overdubbed, each one running in a different timesignature 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, 6/8, 7/8.
its easy on a 303, because of the step function.
lots of early techno was using polyrhythms, check out Richie Hawtins remix of Alpha Wave by Sysytem 7, or anything by Hardfloor, and lots of stuff from Detroit,
polyrhythms are what trip you out, and they also make your body move in different ways.
they are the basis of all good rhythmic music, this is why ive been so frustrated with minimal techno for the last 5 or so years, because people just dont seem to use them, everything is in 4/4 loops. thats so one-dimensional.
i do hear polyrhythms more these days, but quite often in a very obvious way. if you use a 5/4 and 4/4 pattern together, your brain very quickly begins to recognise that relationship, and it quickly becomes as normal to you as a simple 4/4 pattern.
so obvious polyrhythms are really boring to me now, because i've been using them for so long. so now i have to go much deeper to create interesting rhythms, polyrythms are just the starting point. however the more you use together, the more interesting it gets.
every track i ever released is based on polyrhythms, so if anyone wants to hear various examples, check out the mindtours website for sound -bytes.
some of the tracks are more polyrhythmic than others, so try a few different ones.
my album 'Rogue Patterns and Rogue Patterns vol2 are very polyrhythmic.

http://www.mindtours.co.uk


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:33 am 
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mnml maxi
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for instance..i never had or have any musical knowledge in terms like time signatures. i know it probably sounds silly to someone who plays in a band or has a higher level of understanding, but i have a problem getting my head around how the hell do 3/4, 5/4, 6/8, 7/8 sound when played. :oops:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:01 am 
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mnml maxi
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plaster wrote:
for instance..i never had or have any musical knowledge in terms like time signatures. i know it probably sounds silly to someone who plays in a band or has a higher level of understanding, but i have a problem getting my head around how the hell do 3/4, 5/4, 6/8, 7/8 sound when played. :oops:

ok to get a feel for it, ( use cubase if you have it ) run a simple loop of say a 4/4 kick then run a loop pattern of 5 x 16ths. (say; rest, rest , note, rest, note ) using a percusive sound. thats it, you have a very simple polyrhythm.
after 5 beats the loop is back in the position where you started. (5/4)
use the loop repeat function in key edit, and try it with 3x 16ths, 7 x 16ths whatever. try the rests and notes in different places.
not all polyrhythms work together, thats where the musician comes in, its finding things that work, the more deeply you go into it, the more interesting it gets, it's infinite !!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:13 am 
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mnml mdrtr
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or fire up your Live, and make one clip in 4/4 signature with kick on even beats and then make other clip in 3/4 with hats on even beats. (notice the grid changes also)
and on different tracks fcource so u can play them simultaneously

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:03 pm 
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mnml maxi
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Polyrhythms are pretty common in Detroit Techno and alot of early detroit electro stuff. It's not usually only done with drums though, alot of the times it will be done with synths in combination with the drums. It gives the track a swirling feel and outerspacyness. I don't really see how it would be very effective with much music in the current so called "Minimal" style because they usually need to be layered into the background in a mixdown because if they're out front it can become confusing to the listener when dancing. It probably wouldn't have the same effect in a mix that was more sparse.

A great example of polyrhythms in use would be the Red Planet records


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:34 am 
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mnml maxi
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Torque wrote:
I don't really see how it would be very effective with much music in the current so called "Minimal" style because they usually need to be layered into the background in a mixdown because if they're out front it can become confusing to the listener when dancing. It probably wouldn't have the same effect in a mix that was more sparse.

A great example of polyrhythms in use would be the Red Planet records


sorry, i really have to totally dissagree with what youre saying here mate. i've been making polyrhythmic minimal music for 13 years now, and have never had a problem making people dance. infact polyrhythms make people dance in ways they never thought possible. polyrhythms are the most primordial of all music forms and lie at the heart of all tribal music.
it was the danceability of detroit techno that got me into it in the first place, and it was the polyrhythms of detroit techno that set me on my current musical path.
polyrhythms can be minimal just like anything else.
i would however reinforce what your saying about it not being just percussion. every single sound in any of my tracks is polyrhythmic, i might have a bassline in 7/8, a chord in 3/4, a hi-hat in 5/4, getting it all to fit together is the hard bit, and getting it to be spacious is even harder, but thats the challenge for me in music, if i did everything in 4/4 i'd be bored shtless.
trance music is also polyrhythmic, but is based on 16ths, so theres no space in the grooves at all, its just a constant bombardment of notes, take away 95% of those notes and you've got minimal polyrhythmic music.
the current minimal trends have got nothing to do with minimal music as a whole, if you limit minimal music by only seeing it in its latest incarnation, you've got tunnel vision.
one of the main reasons why current trends tend to be locked in a 4/4 dimension, is because of the advent of software based music, and its just too easy to get yourself locked onto that 4/4 grid, and not venture away from it. this never happened to the detroit pioneers, because the machines they were using, encouraged the use of polyrhythms. for instance if i want to use my SH101, i have to trigger it with a rimshot from my 909 because it has no midi. what i trigger is basically a sequence of notes which can be any length i chose. so if its 5 notes, its playing in 5/4 with the 909. instant polyrhythyms without even trying !!!

http://www.myspace.com/steevio
http://www.mindtours.co.uk


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